[dickiegera]

---

East is dealer


Do you open 2♣ or 1♣?

If you open 2♣ how should bidding continue?

If you open 1♣ South will double & how should bidding continue?

N/S is 1-4 in spades and 6-1 in clubs

4 spades will make

[mike777]

expect most of the forum to open 1club.


After that perhaps:

1c=(x)=p?=(??)

You will have to tell us what north bids now?

[Cyberyeti]

If they're 5-1 in clubs and so are you, there's only 12 in the deck.

agree with mike777, we need to know what N bids over the X.

[Kaitlyn S]

If you're going to ask me how I get to 4S, I'm sorry to disappoint you. I get to 2D.

East: 1C
West: 2D (WJS) the odds are against East having four spades and if East doesn't have this monster, responding 1S is probably getting a minus score where as responding 2D at least has a chance of getting a plus.
East: Pass. If partner has 6 diamonds and less than a response, this may very well be our last makeable contract. You might have a better fit, but good luck finding it; if you guess wrong, you might take your plus in 2D and turn it into a minus in a different 6-card fit.

[dickiegera]

[quote name='Cyberyeti' timestamp='1473555412' post='897424']
If they're 5-1 in clubs and so are you, there's only 12 in the deck.





agree with mike777, we need to know what N bids over the X.





6-1 clubs

[Cyberyeti]

Kaitlyn S, on 2016-September-10, 22:25, said:

If you're going to ask me how I get to 4S, I'm sorry to disappoint you. I get to 2D.

East: 1C
West: 2D (WJS) the odds are against East having four spades and if East doesn't have this monster, responding 1S is probably getting a minus score where as responding 2D at least has a chance of getting a plus.
East: Pass. If partner has 6 diamonds and less than a response, this may very well be our last makeable contract. You might have a better fit, but good luck finding it; if you guess wrong, you might take your plus in 2D and turn it into a minus in a different 6-card fit.

I think you'll find a fair few people play 1♣-x-2♦ as fit rather than the WJS they play over 1♣-P.

[wank]

it doesn't matter. making a weak jump ***** with a 4 card major would be pretty bad

edit: lol that was a typo

[rmnka447]

I also think most folks will open it 1 ♣. With both majors, it becomes more problematic finding a 4-4 major fit over 2 ♣. After a double, the auction could go either 1 ♣ - (Dbl) - P - (P) - ? or 1 ♣ - (Dbl) - P - 1 ♦/1 ♥ - ? After the penalty pass by advancer, I think opener probably bids 1 ♠. Over a red suit response by advancer, I think opener may double.

If 1 ♠ is passed back to responder, responder passes. If 1 ♦x is passed back to responder, responder may pass. If 1 ♥x is passed back to responder, responder should bid 1 ♠.

I don't see 4 ♠ as ever biddable although it happens to make.

If responder chooses to bid 2 ♦ as an agreed upon WJS over the double, then opener should pass. Opener's high card should be useful to responder and there's no assurance that there will be a fit in anything else opener will bid.

If opener opens 2 ♣, good luck if you play 2 ♥ negative. What's opener's rebid? If opener rebids 3 ♣, does responder sit or take a leap into the unknown with 3 ♦ bid?

If opener opens 2 ♣ playing 2 ♦ waiting, I think the auction goes

2 ♣ - 2 ♦ (waiting)
3 ♣ - 3 ♦ (2nd negative whether playing cheapest suit or cheapest minor)
3 ♠ - P

[iandayre]

rmnka447, on 2016-September-11, 13:53, said:

I also think most folks will open it 1 ♣. With both majors, it becomes more problematic finding a 4-4 major fit over 2 ♣. After a double, the auction could go either 1 ♣ - (Dbl) - P - (P) - ? or 1 ♣ - (Dbl) - P - 1 ♦/1 ♥ - ? After the penalty pass by advancer, I think opener probably bids 1 ♠. Over a red suit response by advancer, I think opener may double.

If 1 ♠ is passed back to responder, responder passes. If 1 ♦x is passed back to responder, responder may pass. If 1 ♥x is passed back to responder, responder should bid 1 ♠.

I don't see 4 ♠ as ever biddable although it happens to make.

If responder chooses to bid 2 ♦ as an agreed upon WJS over the double, then opener should pass. Opener's high card should be useful to responder and there's no assurance that there will be a fit in anything else opener will bid.

If opener opens 2 ♣, good luck if you play 2 ♥ negative. What's opener's rebid? If opener rebids 3 ♣, does responder sit or take a leap into the unknown with 3 ♦ bid?

If opener opens 2 ♣ playing 2 ♦ waiting, I think the auction goes

2 ♣ - 2 ♦ (waiting)
3 ♣ - 3 ♦ (2nd negative whether playing cheapest suit or cheapest minor)
3 ♠ - P

1C here also. But if 2C were opened, I don't see how you are any worse off after a 2H negative response than after 2D waiting. Opener rebids 3C in any case, and responder has the same problem. Important point - after the immediate 2H negative, any new suit by opener is forcing for one round. 3D would be an automatic continuation, followed by 3H, 3S, 4S!

[kenberg]

So suppose it starts 1NT-(X)-P-(P), as I think it might. I can't say I have ever encountered this. Passing out and playing to make 1C might be tempting. But I suppose I XX. Partner would bid 1D I think, and then I would bid 1H which presumably shows that while I wanted to run I did not want to run to Ds. After this start, if nobody faints from the stress of guessing what is meant, we probably find our spades. I can't say I mind all that much if we do not reach 4S. I will take OP's word for it that it can be made but if the opponents are silent after the initial double then, after XX-1D-1H-1S I suppose it might go 2S-3S-P. I don't see that E can bid 4S on his own, I suspect W will be happy tp pass at his first opportunity, and looking at both hands I am content to be in a part score.

That's the best I can think of, but I am far from sure of it. Feel free to say it is nuts.

[kenrexford]

I think I would end up in three no-trump played by West amazingly. I don't think I'd be able to help myself responding one no-trump after a double. What else is East to do other than the three no-trump after that?

[kenrexford]

I think I would end up in three no-trump played by West amazingly. I don't think I'd be able to help myself responding one no-trump after a double. What else is East to do other than the three no-trump after that?

[mike777]

Playing 1cx is possible.

give north: x...xxx...xxx....J98xxx
give south: Jxxx...AQxx...AKQx...x

North might pull, north might sit.

[dickiegera]

mike777, on 2016-September-11, 18:37, said:

Playing 1cx is possible.

give north: x...xxx...xxx....J98xxx
give south: Jxxx...AQxx...AKQx...x

North might pull, north might sit.

north : x...Q10x...Axx...J98xxx
south : J98x...Axxx...KQxx...x

[Cyberyeti]

dickiegera, on 2016-September-12, 07:50, said:

north : x...Q10x...Axx...J98xxx
south : J98x...Axxx...KQxx...x

E has ♥10 according to the hands given which matters in 1♣x which is where I may well play

[helene_t]

I am with Kaitlyn, I bid 2♦ as West. 2♦ denies a four-card major? Bad luck because pass denies a 6-card suit. 1♦ is possible (or maybe 1♠ if playing Walsh) but I find the hand a tad weak for that.

[ggwhiz]

I have no idea how it goes after a 1♣ opener (which I would do).

After a 2♣ bid our system calls for an artificial 2♥ response, 0-4 no A or K and after that a suit bid by opener is forcing. That will lead to the auction from hell.

[Kaitlyn S]

wank, on 2016-September-11, 07:05, said:

it doesn't matter. making a weak jump ***** with a 4 card major would be pretty bad

edit: lol that was a typo

We would not be the partnership made in heaven then. I'm going to really shock you now.

1C P ? IMPs, both vul

S-76542
H- 10
D- 63
C-J7543

Playing inverted minors where 3C shows a hand not even good enough to make game opposite a balanced 19 count, I would bid 3 clubs unashamedly. If we have a spade fit, then the opponents have a ton of red cards and I want them to start looking at the three level. Players who bid 1S, if they're lucky enough to get past LHO, will likely hear 2NT from partner. Now what? You don't seriously play 3C as signoff here!

[Cyberyeti]

Kaitlyn S, on 2016-September-12, 14:49, said:

We would not be the partnership made in heaven then. I'm going to really shock you now.

1C P ? IMPs, both vul

S-76542
H- 10
D- 63
C-J7543

Playing inverted minors where 3C shows a hand not even good enough to make game opposite a balanced 19 count, I would bid 3 clubs unashamedly. If we have a spade fit, then the opponents have a ton of red cards and I want them to start looking at the three level. Players who bid 1S, if they're lucky enough to get past LHO, will likely hear 2NT from partner. Now what? You don't seriously play 3C as signoff here!

You're so going to enjoy 3♣ opposite the AKQJ, AJ9x, QJx, xx partner always holds when I take a position like that.

[Kaitlyn S]

Cyberyeti, on 2016-September-12, 17:27, said:

You're so going to enjoy 3♣ opposite the AKQJ, AJ9x, QJx, xx partner always holds when I take a position like that.

My partners tend not to have two clubs. Of course, if they could, I can't bud 3C.