Continuation after reopening X
#1
Posted 2018-February-11, 13:44
1H - - X
2H ?
KQx
Jxx
AQx
8xxx
What is X at that stage? Fearing it is for penalties, I bid 2S and ended up playing there in a 3-3 fit (should make seeing 4 hands, but -1 when nothing broke properly, trumps 52, clubs 41, diamonds 42). My partner had
Axx
Qx
KTxx
KQTx
Bad luck or...how to deal with this? Lots of C (and D sometimes) partials for 9-10 tricks.
Thanks!
#2
Posted 2018-February-11, 14:26
2♣ is your longest suit but kinda sucks and blows but is my choice with a weak(er) hand. err 3♣ to make the bid sufficient (as ahydra pointed out) and that REALLY sucks and blows.
Double imo is most commonly played as competitive values (10 plus ish) with no clear direction and if partner views it as takeout or has a weaker balancing double you get to 2♠ if your partner has 4 of them or your best fit much more often. They often look like takeout with say, 2 4-card suits that don't want to play in the wrong one but always have 2 or 3 hearts in them with a decent point count in my partnership.
Sometimes they make but I would pass a double of 2♥ with the south hand.
What is baby oil made of?
#3
Posted 2018-February-11, 17:33
ggwhiz, on 2018-February-11, 14:26, said:
2C is an insufficient bid - opener has rebid 2H.
I don't want to take the risk that 2Hx makes - despite us holding the balance of points, declarer may just make by virtue of his trump length. I would double (as ggwhiz says, this shows values, no clear direction, can even have 4 spades in a maximum). What happens next depends on agreements - you may play 2NT as two places to play (minors), in which case it goes 2NT-3C.
Both partners actually have some extra values. Did anyone manage to reach 3NT? I guess it doesn't make though, since opener rates to have the CA.
ahydra
#4
Posted 2018-February-11, 19:23
ahydra, on 2018-February-11, 17:33, said:
No guarantee your side has the balance of points at MP.
#5
Posted 2018-February-11, 19:24
#6
Posted 2018-February-12, 00:30
- 2♠ with 4 cards and 5-6+ HCP (working though)
- 2NT, natural with good chance to stop ♥ twice (i.e. you were trap-passing if you have an opening); 3NT is also possible if you were trapping, but for me not with 12, I'd say from 14
- a minor, your place to play esp. with 5+ cards, e.g. something like Qxx xxxx Kx Kxxxx, and even weaker
- X, responsive, denying 4 ♠ and NT and usually 44 in the minors; this is a bid to the 3 level, so you need some 9+ HCP
In your case I would have X. Bad ♣ and 4333 but some extra points.
#7
Posted 2018-February-12, 00:45
#8
Posted 2018-February-12, 00:53
#9
Posted 2018-February-12, 03:13
Kxx
QT87x
Axx
Kx
I'd sure like to have a penalty double available, wouldn't you? If X is card-showing, then you're stuck bidding 2NT with this hand, which may not be a good spot at all if partner shows up with something like:
AQxx
x
Kxxxx
xxx
I'd rather take the sure thing by doubling.
If X is penalty, then with the hand you had, I would bid 3C. What else can you do? You can't pass; partner could have a good hand. So downgrade your hand slightly for the bad distribution and the bad club suit and bid a pedestrian 3C. Seems normal enough.
#10
Posted 2018-February-12, 10:23
Having said that my preference would be to use 2NT in this position as Lebensohl, with a double being for business. It may not completely solve the problems with these particular hands, but you can now bid 3C showing values, which might help.
#11
Posted 2018-February-13, 08:36
0deary, on 2018-February-12, 00:53, said:
A balancing 1NT bid is on 10 to 13/ 14 HCP.North cannot jump to 3 NT .There is a relay of 2C for range ask. .With
10 to 12 (bad) HCP the balancer bids 2D ,(Natural or with no 4card major),,2 of his major if he has the lower range and bids 2NT with the higher range. If N now bids 3C it is a sign off.Any other bid by N over 2NT is GF.This can help to discover a major suit fit at 2 level and play there or in 2 NT if no fit is found and balancer has shown the lower range.If balancer has higher range with a 5 card minor then over North’s any bid over the 2 D response ,except 3C,he can either rebid the minor or bid 3NT.This scheme is not simple, as a number of peculiar distributional weak hands that North can have and so anticipatory adjustmental bids are available.But this scheme could have helped the pair to play in 2NT .If West had not rebid 2H even then the shaky single guard may inspire some pairs to either Pass or play in 3C.Playing in 2Hx is indeed a risky choice.
#13
Posted 2018-February-13, 14:42
A t/o double would be nice here but I think this double is penalty. It is really awkward without a t/o double with this hand so maybe I should rethink. Maybe at matchpoints it is not unreasonable to double even if it is penalty.
#14
Posted 2018-February-13, 15:44
I agree with the initial reopening Double.
Bidding over opener's 2 ♥ rebid is a lot more problematic. Although you have values, there's no guarantee that you'll have an 8+ card fit with anything you bid. Playing at the 3 level on a 7 card fit usually isn't optimum. Bidding 2 NT would seem to show some kind of stopper. Double would suggest penalties and a stack of some sort. Any suit bid would be a wild shot at finding a fit. Another problem with bidding with this hand is that you know between opener and you, there are at least 9+ ♥, so the other suits are less likely to break well.
I'm going to pass with this hand and see what partner will do, if anything.
#15
Posted 2018-February-13, 16:17
rmnka447, on 2018-February-13, 15:44, said:
I agree with the initial reopening Double.
Bidding over opener's 2 ♥ rebid is a lot more problematic. Although you have values, there's no guarantee that you'll have an 8+ card fit with anything you bid. Playing at the 3 level on a 7 card fit usually isn't optimum. Bidding 2 NT would seem to show some kind of stopper. Double would suggest penalties and a stack of some sort. Any suit bid would be a wild shot at finding a fit. Another problem with bidding with this hand is that you know between opener and you, there are at least 9+ ♥, so the other suits are less likely to break well.
I'm going to pass with this hand and see what partner will do, if anything.
Passing isn't likely to work out so well. Partner probably has 1-2 hearts and has 8-17 HCP (let's say opener has at least 11). His expectation is probably 1.5 hearts and around 11-12 HCP. He isn't likely to bid again if 2H comes back around to him (he'll only do so with 15+ or so).
So your side rates to have 23-24 HCP (maybe a couple less or a couple more). The opponents rate to have 8 or 9 hearts and around 16-17 HCP. Do you really want to let them play 2H? You're not likely to get it for 200 (opener probably has 6 good hearts and an outside trick, and you don't have a heart trick). Don't you think you can make something? Isn't that something likely to be 3C rather than 2S (partner would have overcalled 1S with five of them) or 3D (partner would have overcalled 2D)?
Yes, bidding 3C could turn out to be wrong, but I think in the long run you will be better off playing 3C than letting the opponents play 2H.
#16
Posted 2018-February-13, 16:30
Better: Double is takout.
#17
Posted 2018-February-14, 12:34
Seems that there is no real obvious meaning on what the « responsive (or any proper qualification adjective) » X should be.
Points with no clear cut action is probably best facing reasonable opponents. Playing against ppl who would repeat with Q6th, probably penalty is a better use 🤣