[virgosrock]

try it out - 4d is 20+, 5D is 24-25. if i bid 2d-2s i have seen moron bid game with 2 little spades, once even stiff spade.
This is why F-Bombs should be allowed for Americans as well.

vrock

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[smerriman]

I'm not sure what the problem is.. why would you ever want to bid diamonds without those points?

[Stephen Tu]

I'm getting 4d = 20-21 TP, 5d = 22-23. It does seem slightly heavy to me. 5D probably should be 21-23, 4D 18-20 maybe. If we are using 4d as invitational they have to tweak it if North is bidding 3D with hands as strong as North without a feature to show; we kind of want it to raise 4d to 5d with AKJxxx but pass with KQJxxx; raise with 10-12 total points but pass with 8 (who knows with 9, what the ideal boundary is prob requires simulation). It seems I have to weaken it to xxx Jx KQTxxx xx before it will stop raising 4d to 5, threshold to bump 4 to 5 a bit low.

The raising spades of course is separate issue, I think the problem is they need to better define bids after 2d-2s so that opener can show a max without a fit, when it has a max it thinks it is missing game and raises on inadequate holdings. It wants 4+ clubs to bid clubs, 10HCP to bid 2nt; in my view 3d should be capped to min and bid 2n/3c if max w/o 3cd fit, and show 2 cd fits only later if responder rebids other than 3d.

[virgosrock]

smerriman, on 2018-May-25, 16:48, said:

I'm not sure what the problem is.. why would you ever want to bid diamonds without those points?

now i am confused. GUBBO might bid 6 if it goes 2d 2n 3d 4d/5d. thus i am confused.

are you suggesting i pass 2d or 3d?

vrock

[smerriman]

Obviously points should have nothing to do with this bidding sequence, but isn't the "standard" definition that you need 28/29 "points" to bid a minor suit game? Which looks like it matches GIB's definitions - I suspect they're the automatically generated points ranges for high level bids that BBO uses by default.

If GIB is raising 4♦ to 5♦ on hands that shouldn't, that could be looked at, but it seems a pretty rare sequence..

[steve2005]

virgosrock, on 2018-May-25, 17:54, said:

now i am confused. GUBBO might bid 6 if it goes 2d 2n 3d 4d/5d. thus i am confused.

are you suggesting i pass 2d or 3d?

vrock

3D yes. You only make 3N if Gib has really good diamonds. as you will lose a diamond and opps run clubs
For my partner 3N response to 2N is a hand with such good diamonds.

In 5D if partner doesn't have such perfect trump you lose 2 spades and a trump

[virgosrock]

steve2005, on 2018-May-26, 04:10, said:

3D yes. You only make 3N if Gib has really good diamonds. as you will lose a diamond and opps run clubs
For my partner 3N response to 2N is a hand with such good diamonds.

In 5D if partner doesn't have such perfect trump you lose 2 spades and a trump

i think steve2005 GUBBO does have3NT showing solid d in its arsenal. so it only bid 3d. Now if I evaluate "points" the most disgusting concept ever conceived:
Stiff H Ace 8+2+4 = 12
s ACE = 8
c ACE = 8
which adds up to 28 points. I should bid 7.

If i rein it in and bid 4D maybe that is the right bid.

Problem is there is no valid invite. Unless 4D is THE invite given all possibilities.

if 2S was NOT twice rebiddable might get to 4S as well.

you just feel like being in the coils of a boa constrictor with this horrible bidding system.

vrock