[virgosrock]

many facets to this
1. did not bid 2C - 10 hcp good suit and 6 cards. Why?
2. I show twice rebiddable diamonds, you have KX and a 6 card good club suit and 10 hcp on the side. Why F-Bomb partner? just bid 5D
3. Maybe i should figure this out since stiff heart but seriously such pressure on partner.

Disgusting!!!

vrock

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[Stephen Tu]

It wants 11+ total points to bid 2c. The problem is its naive total point algorithm which doesn't adequately bonus good long suits IMO. Sometimes the extra points a good long suit ought to get are (partially) counted indirectly by the algorithm adding short suit points (if you are long somewhere that creates shortness elsewhere), but then here it is countered by the algorithm devaluing short honors; short honor in a doubleton is -1 so cancels out the doubleton point. So it thinks this hand is a 10 total point hand. In my view it shouldn't devalue short aces and Ks quite so much; devalue fractionally not a whole point. Also it takes no account whether partner bid a suit or the opponent; it rightly should devalue the J, but it should upvalue the K.

I think with the 7th diamond it's better to bid 3d than dbl 2d.

Don't think it should double on the actual auction, but it really screwed up not bidding 2c in the first place which puts it in the bad situation later. I suppose double could be right if everyone had flatter hands all around, but then vul opponents shouldn't be bidding that much when your side has the balance of HCP, it ought to be simulating opps with a lot of shape, but it probably gets confused by South's super-light 2d call and has trouble generating hands for people.

[virgosrock]

 Stephen Tu, on 2018-May-26, 09:14, said:

It wants 11+ total points to bid 2c. The problem is its naive total point algorithm which doesn't adequately bonus good long suits IMO. Sometimes the extra points a good long suit ought to get are (partially) counted indirectly by the algorithm adding short suit points (if you are long somewhere that creates shortness elsewhere), but then here it is countered by the algorithm devaluing short honors; short honor in a doubleton is -1 so cancels out the doubleton point. So it thinks this hand is a 10 total point hand. In my view it shouldn't devalue short aces and Ks quite so much; devalue fractionally not a whole point. Also it takes no account whether partner bid a suit or the opponent; it rightly should devalue the J, but it should upvalue the K.

I think with the 7th diamond it's better to bid 3d than dbl 2d.

Don't think it should double on the actual auction, but it really screwed up not bidding 2c in the first place which puts it in the bad situation later. I suppose double could be right if everyone had flatter hands all around, but then vul opponents shouldn't be bidding that much when your side has the balance of HCP, it ought to be simulating opps with a lot of shape, but it probably gets confused by South's super-light 2d call and has trouble generating hands for people.

I bid 3D and am pretty sure it will take it as 16+ or 17+ i forget which and who knows where we will end up.

vrock

[virgosrock]

 virgosrock, on 2018-May-26, 10:05, said:

I bid 3D and am pretty sure it will take it as 16+ or 17+ i forget which and who knows where we will end up.

vrock

And further Stephen unless a brilliant underlead on opening lead this is a double game swing and its my money going down the toilet.
With no recourse from BBO except "all are in the same boat".

vrock

[Stephen Tu]

I think it will take it as 16/17 ish total points not HCP, which is about right IMO, the 7th diamond compensates for less in high cards (I'd want more high cards if only 6 bagger). Yes East may still do something stupid later, but showing a lot of playing strength in diamonds ought to make it prefer to bid 5d. I'm just suggesting the theoretical correct bids IMO.

"All in same boat" is actually a valid excuse. You want refund for all the times GIB screws you. But surely this is more or less equal to refunds they would have to take away from you to give your opps when GIB screws them and gifts the money to you. It's a fair game, if you got refunds, your opponents should also get refunds out of your winnings. You can't rightly expect BBO to refund out of their own pocket.

If your frustration level with GIB is so high, your proper response is to *quit playing*. Stop giving them your rake. Only if their revenue from robo tourneys and money games drop precipitiously, and they think it's because of the quality of the bots, does it incentivize them to try to improve it faster. If you continue to play despite these things, it's a strong signal that you still consider the quality of the current product "good enough" for the current amount of rake you are paying. Yes you are whiny and frustrated, but it's still cheap enough and entertaining enough that you apparently are continuing to play hundreds/thousands of boards. So quit or temper your expectations.

[virgosrock]

 Stephen Tu, on 2018-May-26, 11:00, said:

I think it will take it as 16/17 ish total points not HCP, which is about right IMO, the 7th diamond compensates for less in high cards (I'd want more high cards if only 6 bagger). Yes East may still do something stupid later, but showing a lot of playing strength in diamonds ought to make it prefer to bid 5d. I'm just suggesting the theoretical correct bids IMO.

"All in same boat" is actually a valid excuse. You want refund for all the times GIB screws you. But surely this is more or less equal to refunds they would have to take away from you to give your opps when GIB screws them and gifts the money to you. It's a fair game, if you got refunds, your opponents should also get refunds out of your winnings. You can't rightly expect BBO to refund out of their own pocket.

If your frustration level with GIB is so high, your proper response is to *quit playing*. Stop giving them your rake. Only if their revenue from robo tourneys and money games drop precipitiously, and they think it's because of the quality of the bots, does it incentivize them to try to improve it faster. If you continue to play despite these things, it's a strong signal that you still consider the quality of the current product "good enough" for the current amount of rake you are paying. Yes you are whiny and frustrated, but it's still cheap enough and entertaining enough that you apparently are continuing to play hundreds/thousands of boards. So quit or temper your expectations.

Valid points all Stephen. I thought 3D would show the hand with more HCP and 2Dx would show the hand type I had. "Twice rebiddable". Wonder if there is a way to determine this. Perhaps Sir Donn.
I haven't given them my rake for about a year now. Moment I fall below a threshold I go to a lower stake ad nauseum.

The rest is just getting it off one's plate and hopefully putting it on "theirs". And posting it is for the benefit of those who may learn from it and those who may be planning to buyit/rent it. Once a Prof always a Prof.

But I would still want the difference between 2dx and 3d clarified. Or a sound explanation of twice rebiddable.

vrock