[Jinksy]

---

IMP teams, with no sophisticated agreements.

Also I can't find the hand records now - it's possible S had the JD. Would that affect your view?

[TylerE]

Not sure there's really any blame to assign here. Hard to find Q♣ anywhere on the auction and that's a two trick difference. Whatever N is hoping for, S has basically the worst possible hand.

[gszes]

I have no heartache with the bidding through 4s but I cannot fathom a reason why south did not bid 4n instead of 5d. If 4s was not a void I am shocked and if responder has 2 aces how bad can 6d be? Responder is still trying for slam after our pass of 4h so some extra values has to be assumed.

[Cyberyeti]

gszes, on 2019-January-02, 10:22, said:

I have no heartache with the bidding through 4s but I cannot fathom a reason why south did not bid 4n instead of 5d. If 4s was not a void I am shocked and if responder has 2 aces how bad can 6d be? Responder is still trying for slam after our pass of 4h so some extra values has to be assumed.

Unfortunately partner's hand was void, Qx, AQJxxxx, Axxx and it was no play.

For us, the splinter is GF so pass over 4♥ is forcing, not sure about that in a new partnership

[gordontd]

Cyberyeti, on 2019-January-02, 10:28, said:

Unfortunately partner's hand was void, Qx, AQJxxxx, Axxx and it was no play.

??

[Cyberyeti]

gordontd, on 2019-January-02, 10:57, said:

??

Sorry thought N had ♣Q not S

Is it impossible N has a stiff ♠A here though ? (particularly if your splinters are undiscussed)

[cherdano]

Why are 5♦ and 6♦ the only options for South over 4♠? Is it forbidden to make a cooperative move with 5♣?

[Tramticket]

South has only 8 working points. Difficult for him to do more.

[TylerE]

Cyberyeti, on 2019-January-02, 11:04, said:

Sorry thought N had ♣Q not S

Is it impossible N has a stiff ♠A here though ? (particularly if your splinters are undiscussed)

Does N even have to have A♦ here? If he had, say, KJ in ♥ and Qxxxx in ♦ doesn't he bid the same way?

[cherdano]

Tramticket, on 2019-January-02, 11:59, said:

South has only 8 working points. Difficult for him to do more.

Is it really so hard to envision that the heart shortness might be useful?

[cherdano]

TylerE, on 2019-January-02, 12:34, said:

Does N even have to have A♦ here? If he had, say, KJ in ♥ and Qxxxx in ♦ doesn't he bid the same way?

No he does not.

[The_Badger]

The second splinter of 4♠ is not just saying void, and let's bid game, it is saying slam is in the offing, though how they then reach 6♦ is open to question. Though it is up to South to envisage that his partner has some 10-15 HCPs (or something like that) to splinter in a minor in the first place, and work out where those points are likely to be.

He has an extra ♦, useful cards in the unbid suit ♣s and a singleton ♥. 5♦ is a lazy bid. Both 4NT and 5♣ seem much better.

And yes, there are plenty of hands that you can give North where 6♦ will never make, but I believe South is at fault here for not trusting his partner and making some forward gesture, even with his aceless hand.

[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2019-January-02, 11:04, said:

Is it impossible N has a stiff ♠A here though ? (particularly if your splinters are undiscussed)

It is for me, particularly if splinters *are* undiscussed.
For the rest, I agree with gszes and The_Badger.

[Jinksy]

cherdano, on 2019-January-02, 11:45, said:

Why are 5♦ and 6♦ the only options for South over 4♠? Is it forbidden to make a cooperative move with 5♣?

Woops, right. Changed the poll.

[Cyberyeti]

TylerE, on 2019-January-02, 12:34, said:

Does N even have to have A♦ here? If he had, say, KJ in ♥ and Qxxxx in ♦ doesn't he bid the same way?

My remark was connected to bidding 4N and getting a 2 ace response, which he doesn't get with that.

[rmnka447]

Are N/S playing Unusual vs. Unusual? The poll choices include one where 2 ♠ is indicated as forcing. In U vs. U, 2 ♠ would indicate ♦ and values.

In any case, if you have a forcing bid available and choose to splinter, you must not only be showing values but a distributional feature as well. With poor or mediocre values and distribution, you can just pick a level of ♦ and bid it.

When North bids 4 ♠, it shows absolute control of ♠ and must show a pretty good hand for ♦ because it indicates some slam interest (else 5 ♦). Tramticket pointed out that South has only 8 working which is true. But South also doesn't have 2 Quick losers in any suit outside of ♠ and North has already shown complete control of the ♠ suit.

North can't bid as shown with an A-less hand outside of ♠. Given at least one A in ♣, ♦ or ♥, 5 ♦ must have some sort of play. If North has 2 or more, than slam should be playable. So whether 4 NT is A asking, Last Train/waiting, or 2 places to play, I think South has to bid it and also show some slam interest.

[LBengtsson]

North is bidding aggressive. Must have good better fit. Spade void. South with heart stiff must bid rkcb. 2 out of 3 aces make slam a good call.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

if North only needs a heart shortage, he knowes, that South has one, the opponents have told him,
that they have at least a 9 card fit.
5C by South would show the Ace of clubs / first round control, at least this is my take on standard,
so South does not have a 5C bid.
... I would not have bid 4NT as South, I guess this showes, that am a chicken in the slam zone, but
given the knowledge of the heart shortage, North could have bid 6C himself, it would have taken similar
courage as the 4NT bid.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[cherdano]

P_Marlowe, on 2019-January-03, 02:27, said:

5C by South would show the Ace of clubs / first round control, at least this is my take on standard,
so South does not have a 5C bid.

It's certainly not standard. Indeed, why would anyone play an agreement that doesn't allow South to cooperate with a slam try, and that doesn't allow South to show useful values in partner's likely side suit? Even the most religious first-round control bidder should show some flexibility here.

[dsLawsd]

South should bid 6♦ over 4♠. He has the world's fair after such a strong sequence by North.