[m00036]

 wnt53, on 2020-June-25, 21:55, said:

Had an update from BBO yesterday So, we wait with bated breath...

Interesting... it seems that volunteers that run free tournaments will now need to pay to volunteer. Normally the process works the other way round I understand why BBO are doing it but it also seems like such a waste of a fantastic resource that they have built up. I ran a free league over a month last year which attracted a range of different players, none of whom I had ever seen before or seen afterwards, and they all logged on to join this random game just because they liked the format of tournament and the attentive style of directing. I ran the league because I loved the fact I was helping people, but there is no way that I would be willing to pay to volunteer, especially since BBO have now started paying people to direct their own tournaments! Paid directors also tend to have less invested in the competition so the standard of directing is lower (better from a laws perspective but worse from an amicable perspective).

BBO would be better off reaching out to current directors of free tournaments and invite them to host BBO-branded events; The reduction in director fees can then help keep as many tournaments free for the end user. The pandemic is not going to stick around; BBO have a lot to lose if they change their fee structure and demand goes back to what it was before.

[Rfulrabbit]

Since the pandemic, free games were filling up too fast. Sometimes, if you sign up 30 minutes or more in advance, you find that casual partner gone.

So I started setting games for people like me who did not have 40 minutes to wait, and I usually get 15 to 18 tables.

These are random players and my games are open to all.

It is economically unlikely that I would pay to host games.

Also many players around the world simply cannot afford paid games, even more so since the rise in unemployment since the pandemic. Likewise volunteer directors would be in the same position.

[m00036]

 Rfulrabbit, on 2020-June-27, 05:12, said:

Since the pandemic, free games were filling up too fast. Sometimes, if you sign up 30 minutes or more in advance, you find that casual partner gone.

So I started setting games for people like me who did not have 40 minutes to wait, and I usually get 15 to 18 tables.

These are random players and my games are open to all.

It is economically unlikely that I would pay to host games.

Also many players around the world simply cannot afford paid games, even more so since the rise in unemployment since the pandemic. Likewise volunteer directors would be in the same position.

Exactly, similarly most of my free tournaments are at random times and I'm only prepared to wait 5 minutes or so before wanting to start the tournament. In that amount of time, I can comfortably get to 60, 70 or 80 players, even with 70% TCR set (for example). I had the opportunity to see a new software package with integrated audio and webcams at a normal bridge table (in all other respects it was similar to BBO but with its own interface), so BBO will not be the only competitor in this market anymore (indeed it already competes with Funbridge which lacks user interaction but benefits from a better interface); It would be more sensible to build on its unique features (i.e. its currently loyal members) as opposed to giving people reasons for looking elsewhere.

[Vampyr]

 m00036, on 2020-June-27, 15:44, said:

Exactly, similarly most of my free tournaments are at random times and I'm only prepared to wait 5 minutes or so before wanting to start the tournament. In that amount of time, I can comfortably get to 60, 70 or 80 players, even with 70% TCR set (for example). I had the opportunity to see a new software package with integrated audio and webcams at a normal bridge table (in all other respects it was similar to BBO but with its own interface), so BBO will not be the only competitor in this market anymore (indeed it already competes with Funbridge which lacks user interaction but benefits from a better interface); It would be more sensible to build on its unique features (i.e. its currently loyal members) as opposed to giving people reasons for looking elsewhere.

Funbridge and BBO are owned by the same people, so it is not clear that the former will remain a competitors for market share.

[m00036]

 Vampyr, on 2020-June-27, 19:07, said:

Funbridge and BBO are owned by the same people, so it is not clear that the former will remain a competitors for market share.

Ah of course you're quite right. It's interesting how the interfaces can be so different! If the platforms could be combined in some way then it would produce a very polished product, suitable at least for causal games if not competitive.

[DarrenE]

I am running many free tournaments and will start charging a small subscription form August. I have emailed BBO to ask how we might contribute something, but have not yet had a reply. I do not want to deal with pay per session fees.

[pescetom]

The first of July is here. Are the proposed new terms and conditions available to read somewhere?

[barmar]

 Vampyr, on 2020-June-22, 10:17, said:

Maybe you didn’t see the comments bout clubs who are hosting free games and collecting entry fees in another way.

Some of these have made special arrangements with BBO management, and they are paying us for the right to do this.

We've also discovered some people doing this without such an arrangement, and we've been taking away their hosting rights.

[gentgiant]

 barmar, on 2020-July-02, 18:06, said:

Some of these have made special arrangements with BBO management, and they are paying us for the right to do this.

We've also discovered some people doing this without such an arrangement, and we've been taking away their hosting rights.

When will the August changes be announced?

[pescetom]

 gentgiant, on 2020-July-11, 01:40, said:

When will the August changes be announced?

I asked the same on 1st [edit]July, don't recall receiving a reply.



On 2nd[edit]July we all received the following apparently reassuring message - hopefully it means what it says and that no new limits will be imposed on free tournaments after all.

alexandra said:

July 1st: Restrictions removed – We’re Back!
by Alexandra | Posted on June 29, 2020

Dear BBOers,

During these past few months we saw incredible numbers of new players finding refuge online and we were forced to impose limitations here and there to cope with the massive volume of users, tables, boards played…

Our techs worked day and night to increase capacity and add more power, memory, machines, servers until the systems stabilized and finally we can say that the worst is behind us. ����

We are happy to announce that as of July 1st, BBO is back on track! Limits lifted, your favorite picture will light up your profile again (yeah your cat is the most beautiful), (compatibility) stars will shine again and — most of all, you’ll finally be able to play your favorite free tournaments again, at any hour of the day.



What does it really mean?
No more “peak hours” limitation on free tournaments.
Free robot duplicates and other free robot tournaments are back!
Weekly Free Instant Tournament is back too!
Play the Free Super Sunday Daylong again.
Profile pictures are visible again.
Compatibility stars are back.
BBO is free and remains free. Thank you for your patience and have fun playing.

Any questions? Please send us a message to support@bridgebase.com

[barmar]

 pescetom, on 2020-July-12, 09:00, said:

I asked the same on 1st August, don't recall receiving a reply.

Your calendar is running fast. 1 August is almost 3 weeks away.

[pescetom]

 barmar, on 2020-July-12, 13:13, said:

Your calendar is running fast. 1 August is almost 3 weeks away.

I edited the post to say July as intended.
But the calendar does run fast, there are people counting on my free tournaments in August and I don't know what to say.

[gentgiant]

I asked a direct question of BBO this weekend and received this answer:

"As of August 1st you will be able host 1 team match at the time, as any other
mature bbo username. Should you want continue with TD privileges, please
contact your national bridge federation (NBO) and express your interest in
running sanctioned games online. BBO cannot award masterpoints recognized in
your country unless the Federation makes an agreement with BBO first, BBO
already has agreements with several NBOs from UK."

So the EBU has effectively stymied my tournaments for friends where we are not interested in Masterpoints and where nobody pays anybody to play or pays me to TD.

The loss of ability to set two team matches running concurrently, also makes it trickier to run inter-club team matches. I've run one a week between various clubs and these have been very popular.

Sad, not to say, an infuriating day.

[Vampyr]

 pescetom, on 2020-July-12, 15:59, said:

I edited the post to say July as intended.
But the calendar does run fast, there are people counting on my free tournaments in August and I don't know what to say.

Before the pandemic, did you run free tournaments in real bridge? Normally you have to pay for the venue.I’m sure that the cost is well under a dollar per player, which should not really cause A hardship to anyone.

[Vampyr]

 gentgiant, on 2020-July-13, 01:01, said:

I asked a direct question of BBO this weekend and received this answer:

"As of August 1st you will be able host 1 team match at the time, as any other
mature bbo username. Should you want continue with TD privileges, please
contact your national bridge federation (NBO) and express your interest in
running sanctioned games online. BBO cannot award masterpoints recognized in
your country unless the Federation makes an agreement with BBO first, BBO
already has agreements with several NBOs from UK."

So the EBU has effectively stymied my tournaments for friends where we are not interested in Masterpoints and where nobody pays anybody to play or pays me to TD.

The loss of ability to set two team matches running concurrently, also makes it trickier to run inter-club team matches. I've run one a week between various clubs and these have been very popular.

Sad, not to say, an infuriating day.

This is truly unfortunate. I can well imagine that you do not want the players to set up their own matches because of security issues, which BBO do not intend to eliminate. It might be time to start looking for another platform.

[pescetom]

 Vampyr, on 2020-July-13, 06:15, said:

Before the pandemic, did you run free tournaments in real bridge? Normally you have to pay for the venue.I’m sure that the cost is well under a dollar per player, which should not really cause A hardship to anyone.

My players (who are all members of my small "real bridge" club) would have no issue in paying a dollar to BBO, as you say they were used to paying for the venue (and I was used to being paid for my services as a director, come to that). It's not about money, it's about providing the kind of game they are used to and desire. My NBO decided not to enter an agreement with BBO so no help on that side, especially as they are now starting to play face to face again. If I were to stop organising tournaments here now then most of my club members would just go back to "real bridge" and abandon BBO. If it will be possible to continue as at present or under some simple alternative scheme then we would continue to hold some tournaments on BBO rather than at the club even if/when normal conditions return.

[game1980]

If I am not wrong
August 1 is 2 days later
what is the update?
Can we still run tournaments?

[Geoff103]

 game1980, on 2020-July-29, 21:01, said:

If I am not wrong
August 1 is 2 days later
what is the update?
Can we still run tournaments?

You are not wrong and BBO is being very coy about August 1 changes. I suspect we are about to lose TD rights in order to appease NBOs.

[m00036]

 Geoff103, on 2020-July-30, 02:04, said:

You are not wrong and BBO is being very coy about August 1 changes. I suspect we are about to lose TD rights in order to appease NBOs.

I very much doubt that is the case. BBO has been overwhelmed with NBO support and it's more likely that they are dealing with different NBO games and requests and haven't got around to arranging plans for BBO tournaments organised by other directors. I suspect the current situation will continue at least for another month or so (they haven't sent any official news out just yet and they risk losing a lot of their membership if they make a last minute decision to revoke director rights). They did say they would think about a subscription model so to revoke all director privileges in August and then try to bring directors back for a fee at a later date isn't a viable business or bridge model (since everyone will have left by then).

[m00036]

 m00036, on 2020-July-30, 07:00, said:

I very much doubt that is the case. BBO has been overwhelmed with NBO support and it's more likely that they are dealing with different NBO games and requests and haven't got around to arranging plans for BBO tournaments organised by other directors. I suspect the current situation will continue at least for another month or so (they haven't sent any official news out just yet and they risk losing a lot of their membership if they make a last minute decision to revoke director rights). They did say they would think about a subscription model so to revoke all director privileges in August and then try to bring directors back for a fee at a later date isn't a viable business or bridge model (since everyone will have left by then).

It's also not helpful to complain on the forum about changes to BBO procedures and fearing the worst. BBO are a company, and are also a well regarded company on the whole by the bridge community, and nothing could be worse for them at a time like this to lose their reputation such as by making last minute changes to their director terms. You would be well within your rights to complain to your heart's content if last minute changes are made on Saturday, but ultimately there's been no official news and I think we can all be hopeful that NBOs (and this forum page) have provided enough support for BBO to continue to support their free tournaments. I outlined above why it makes no economic/business sense anyway for BBO to revoke director rights for 2 days time, so I'm very prepared to give the benefit of the doubt to BBO here and thank them for not revoking free tournament rights during these tough times. Every little helps and it will give a massive boost to all the players on BBO to know that the bridge community is being supported by the companies, players and directors alike.

So please, if you're reading and contributing to this forum, make comments based on the facts and official correspondence as opposed to unfair rumours and assumptions. BBO admins do read these posts (and I hope any delays to procedural changes are because they are taking our views into account) and it's more likely that you will be prevented from running tournaments for complaining here than because of BBO making a last minute and detrimental (to themselves as well as others) change to their terms and conditions.