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Fair distribution of HCPs.

#1 User is offline   MrTopCat 

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Posted 2021-April-22, 10:42

I would like to make a comment about using the site.
In a recent match over the twelve board session I had only two hands with over 10 HCPs as did my partner. My average count was 8.75 and my partner's average count was 8.1. In our last match my point count average was 10.2 and my partner’s average HCP was only 8.5. On both occasions we were hoping for a pleasant afternoon of bridge which would include playing a few hands rather than an afternoon of passing and defending. Surely your program is capable of presenting a session of twelve boards with a reasonable distribution of points so that all participants have a real opportunity to bid and play some hands and enjoy the game.
Also a group of skewed point allocation boards makes it very challenging for one partnership to have a reasonable chance of success.
Come on Bridge Base – ask your programmers to amend the program to improve our enjoyment of playing Bridge on your site.
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#2 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2021-April-22, 10:53

View PostMrTopCat, on 2021-April-22, 10:42, said:

I would like to make a comment about using the site.In a recent match over the twelve board session I had only two hands with over 10 HCPs as did my partner. My average count was 8.75 and my partner's average count was 8.1. In our last match my point count average was 10.2 and my partner's average HCP was only 8.5. On both occasions we were hoping for a pleasant afternoon of bridge which would include playing a few hands rather than an afternoon of passing and defending. Surely your program is capable of presenting a session of twelve boards with a reasonable distribution of points so that all participants have a real opportunity to bid and play some hands and enjoy the game.Also a group of skewed point allocation boards makes it very challenging for one partnership to have a reasonable chance of success.Come on Bridge Base – ask your programmers to amend the program to improve our enjoyment of playing Bridge on your site.
Among the drawbacks to MrTopCat's suggestion is that it flouts the rules of bridge. For example, If your side held much less than your share of points for the first 11 boards, then you would know that you are due a bonanza on board 12.
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#3 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2021-April-22, 14:14

It sounds like a great way for BBO to make extra revenue.
Charge players a little more for additional average HCP's.
Say $0.01 per 0.1?
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#4 User is online   hrothgar 

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Posted 2021-April-22, 15:43

There's a big big problem with your suggestion

Suppose that you're playing a 12 board match and, on the first 11 boards, you've ended up with far fewer HCP's that you should of. Well, come board 12 everyone now has all sorts of UI about how the HCPs on this hand are going to be distributed.

In addition, one of the nice things about duplicate is that it helps protect against a bad run of luck. Everyone else sitting the same direction as you is going to get deal those same hands. If you're not doing well, learn to play better.

Play enough boards, this will all even out.
Alderaan delenda est
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#5 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2021-April-22, 15:59

You need to join the Super Platinum Club. Members are guaranteed to be declarer at least 85% of the time. Obviously, the corollary is that non members only get to be declarer 15% of the time or less. As the saying goes, "Membership has it's privileges!". I don't have any problem if paying members get more high cards (or better suit breaks, or more winning finesses).
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#6 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2021-April-22, 15:59

Switch to EHAA - it makes being a bad card holder a lot more fun.

But seriously, the chance of having two or fewer hands with 10HCP or more in 12 boards is a bit over 1%. If you play once a day, the chance of this happening at least once in two months is basically a coin-flip (48%).

I remember the day I kept track, and averaged <8HCP over 24 boards. And the last one I opened an Acol 2 because I had the right 14!
  • We won the game (not particularly surprising as we were (well, my partner was) a fair bit better than the field);
  • It was a 4 table Howell (so nobody else held all the same hands as I did);
  • It was hand shuffled and dealt.

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#7 User is offline   aawk 

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Posted 2021-April-23, 06:24

Every few month there is a post from somebody complaining about not getting enough points.

Thinking that BBO is controlling how much HCP you are getting.

Well some people also think the world is flat.
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#8 User is offline   ThomasRush 

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Posted 2021-April-23, 08:43

Hi, TopCat!

I know it can be frustrating when your side doesn't seem to get its share of points -- but it doesn't matter!
You're playing duplicate. The game isn't "who gets the most points", or "Who plays the most contracts". No, your score comes from comparing your score to the other people who hold _the same cards_!

And it's delicious! 90% of your opponents are sitting there with your cards saying, "Another bad hand" and mentally checking out. All you have to do is pay attention and defend well, and you'll get great scores -- if you stay in the game.

This is a great time to practice accurate signaling, counting out the hand, and taking inferences from the auction and declarer's line of play.

The other thing is to review the hands with your partner after the game. Perhaps you'll find that you were too timid -- not overcalling or preempting when the rest of the field did, or not taking into consideration the power of your fits when partner opens or overcalls. This hand review can be really helpful if you have a coach or mentor to work with you.

The main thing to remember is... *some* east/west (or north/south) was going to get the best score, even if they averaged five points per hand. Why couldn't that pair be you?
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#9 User is offline   dsLawsd 

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Posted 2021-April-23, 17:51

Hope that the BBO hand generator is working properly and is correct.

Personally, I relish the chance to play defense
frequently as it has on some occasions lead to a huge per cent score, once giving our partnership a top ten finish in a NABC+ event. At any rate better than playing hands where the outcome is usually flat.
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#10 User is offline   dottied 

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Posted 2021-April-24, 11:18

i agree with the original complaint. its been about 2 years now where i get very few hands.i play with lots of different people and if i am north/south, e/w gets the cards. and vice versa. it is very discouraging at times. i think that the hands could be distributed more evenly, but random. also it seems that thee computer seats us. so why do i always get sat in the side that doesnt get the cards? is it my point count or what? what does seem to be, is that it is not fair.
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#11 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-April-24, 12:43

View Postdottied, on 2021-April-24, 11:18, said:

i agree with the original complaint. its been about 2 years now where i get very few hands.i play with lots of different people and if i am north/south, e/w gets the cards. and vice versa. it is very discouraging at times. i think that the hands could be distributed more evenly, but random. also it seems that thee computer seats us. so why do i always get sat in the side that doesnt get the cards? is it my point count or what? what does seem to be, is that it is not fair.

You must feel strongly about this, to make your second post in 15 years.
Just kidding B-)
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#12 User is offline   Huibertus 

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Posted 2021-April-24, 12:45

Everybody rougly gets to defend half of the hands and gets to declare a quarter.

So consider yourself lucky with a long low HCP period. You get to practice defense which is twice as important as declarer play.

It will likely pay of.
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#13 User is offline   dottied 

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Posted 2021-April-24, 13:21

View Postpescetom, on 2021-April-24, 12:43, said:

You must feel strongly about this, to make your second post in 15 years.
Just kidding B-)


i feel very strongly about this topic. i have complained to everyone about it. i just get.... thats the way the cards are. well i dont like it!
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#14 User is offline   dottied 

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Posted 2021-April-24, 13:23

an added note: i even get comments from people who know me --- gee, dot, you sure get lousy cards (all the time).
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#15 User is online   hrothgar 

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Posted 2021-April-24, 13:59

View Postdottied, on 2021-April-24, 11:18, said:

i agree with the original complaint. its been about 2 years now where i get very few hands.i play with lots of different people and if i am north/south, e/w gets the cards. and vice versa. it is very discouraging at times. i think that the hands could be distributed more evenly, but random. also it seems that thee computer seats us. so why do i always get sat in the side that doesnt get the cards? is it my point count or what? what does seem to be, is that it is not fair.


I am guessing that you pissed off one of the Loa.

Your best option is to get a black rooster, a silver bladed knife, a bowl, some cigars, and hard candy.
Wander down to the cross roads round about midnight...
Alderaan delenda est
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#16 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2021-April-24, 14:35

...and Dottie be good tonight.
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#17 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-April-24, 17:52

View Postdottied, on 2021-April-24, 11:18, said:

so why do i always get sat in the side that doesnt get the cards? is it my point count or what? what does seem to be, is that it is not fair.

View Postdottied, on 2021-April-24, 13:23, said:

an added note: i even get comments from people who know me --- gee, dot, you sure get lousy cards (all the time).

It's a well known phenomenon called 'confirmation bias'. Every time you get a poor hand, you remember it much more than the better hands. You bring it up in conversation with those who know you, who then also notice it each time you have a poor hand, and so on.

*Everyone* feels like they have bad hands most of the time - because it's simply true. In two thirds of all hands, you're going to be dealt 11 points or less (and only one in 5 hands are you going to get more than 13 points) - so the opportunities to be 'disappointed' come thick and fast.

Looking back at the latest 300 hands you've played on BBO (at least, the public ones), you're getting exactly the same types of hands as everyone else - ranging from 0 hcp (once, should happen every 275 hands or so) to 22 hcp (once, should happen every 236 hands or so), and plenty in the middle.
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#18 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2021-April-24, 18:02

View Posthrothgar, on 2021-April-24, 13:59, said:

I am guessing that you pissed off one of the Loa.

Your best option is to get a black rooster, a silver bladed knife, a bowl, some cigars, and hard candy.
Wander down to the cross roads round about midnight...

Also, you need to sacrifice a bottle of tomato sauce to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Posting in this thread is [...] probably not a net benefit to mankind --- gwnn
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#19 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2021-April-25, 09:56

rAmen.

(oh, come on, someone had to).
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
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