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Here's a nice hand (bid it MY way)

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 00:02



MPs

You're playing xyz, 2 was artificial and game forcing.
What's your plan now?
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

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#2 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 00:31

Do you play Walsh?

If you don't, then 1 could be on a balanced hand so 3 is just the standard (but very space-consuming) way to show 5+ clubs.

If you do, then 1 already promises an unbalanced so 3 must show 6+ clubs.
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#3 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 00:54

I'm feeling impatient today so
4NT asking for Aces
6NT with 1 shown, 7NT with 2
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#4 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 00:56

View Postnullve, on 2021-August-16, 00:31, said:

If you do, then 1 already promises an unbalanced so 3 must show 6+ clubs.

What do you bid with 3145 and no spade stopper - 2? I guess that's an option, though I would have interpreted 3 as more of a default rebid with nothing further to show.

As for the OP, I would have bid 3, not 2; one of the benefits of having 2 cover all of the invites is that your jump bids can be slammish. 3 now is not as meaningful, so I'm probably just going to blast 4NT as well (or whatever your keycard bid is).
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#5 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 01:43

No Walsh

If you had rebid 3 partner will cooperate with a cue.
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 02:03

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-August-16, 00:54, said:

I'm feeling impatient today so
4NT asking for Aces
6NT with 1 shown, 7NT with 2


This deserves Jxx, AKQJ, x, J10xxx 6m prob makes but 6N is doomed on a spade lead
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#7 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 02:09

4 next. that (to me lol!) is logic. says I like your suit and I have solid suit myself. I want a NT trump contract played from partners side of the table at Matchpoint if his suit is king high and not solid. am i wrong here with 4??? or could it be taken as Kickback here??? I would like to know myself.
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#8 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 02:14

View PostLBengtsson, on 2021-August-16, 02:09, said:

4 next. that (to me lol!) is logic. says I like your suit and I have solid suit myself. I want a NT trump contract played from partners side of the table at Matchpoint if his suit is king high and not solid. am i wrong here with 4??? or could it be taken as Kickback here??? I would like to know myself.

Agree with this - I really need opener to play NT if K high



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#9 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 02:18

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-August-16, 02:03, said:

This deserves Jxx, AKQJ, x, J10xxx 6m prob makes but 6N is doomed on a spade lead

That would be my bad luck and teach me for being impatientPosted Image, but I'm perhaps swayed by jillybean's previous interesting slamsPosted Image
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#10 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 02:23

View PostLBengtsson, on 2021-August-16, 02:09, said:

4 next. that (to me lol!) is logic. says I like your suit and I have solid suit myself. I want a NT trump contract played from partners side of the table at Matchpoint if his suit is king high and not solid. am i wrong here with 4??? or could it be taken as Kickback here??? I would like to know myself.

4 is kickback for me, but without that, how does 4 say you like my Clubs?
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#11 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 02:30

We are already in a game force. Jumps should be very narrowly defined. I feel like a broken record, but jumping on slam auctions is almost never the best course of action. I hate 4NT, and don't love 4 (we are too strong). Why not 3 followed by 4? 7m and 7NT are not out of the picture but are far from guaranteed on just the present auction.

I have been playing a different style for so long that I'm not sure what partner promises on the auction. Is 2=4=3=4 with weak spades still an option (and since you play weak NT, this promises 15+) or would partner have given preference to 3? Would 2 over 2 have been artificial (fourth suit) or a picture bid? Would 2 promise a 5-6 hand, or can it be a punt? If partner has, say, 1=4=3=5, obviously their diamonds are weak so I presume showing clubs takes priority over supporting diamonds?

@jillybean 3 would already be natural, so 4 promises support. If the suit would not have been bid earlier it would be a splinter, but since it has it shows strength instead.
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#12 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 02:54

View Postsmerriman, on 2021-August-16, 00:56, said:

What do you bid with 3145 and no spade stopper - 2? I guess that's an option, though I would have interpreted 3 as more of a default rebid with nothing further to show.

3415 and no spade stopper, you mean? (Opener has already shown 4 hearts.)

A situation like this (it might have been the exact same sequence 1-1(Walsh); 1-2(XYZ)) with Opener having 3415 with no stopper in the 4th suit, spades) actually came up about a year ago, and my very good partner chose to bid 2N. After the board he asked me if I thought he should have bid 3 since he lacked a stopper and I told him I agreed with 2N.

So I realise that

View Postnullve, on 2021-August-16, 00:31, said:

3 must show 6+ clubs.

was a bit optimistic.
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#13 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 06:27

4◇ would be Kickback for us: that's why I will bid 4♧ instead (forcing and invites control-bids that should clarify whether we can play 6N rather than 6♧).
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#14 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 06:31

It might be a good idea to let partner in on the secret of what suit will be trumps: 4C
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#15 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 09:14

View Postpescetom, on 2021-August-16, 06:27, said:

4◇ would be Kickback for us: that's why I will bid 4♧ instead (forcing and invites control-bids that should clarify whether we can play 6N rather than 6♧).

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-August-16, 06:31, said:

It might be a good idea to let partner in on the secret of what suit will be trumps: 4C

If we bid 4 partner is guaranteed to continue 4. Have we actually advanced any further? Presumably you want to bid 4 next. Let's say partner then bids 5 (or perhaps 4NT if that is Last Train) - what now, are you happy? Which hands do you see getting right with this approach that we are going to fail on with a simple 4?
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#16 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 09:24

Why didn't I start 1-2 ? The hand is likely to be a whole lot simpler if I do.
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#17 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 09:47

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-August-16, 09:24, said:

Why didn't I start 1-2 ? The hand is likely to be a whole lot simpler if I do.
That depends entirely on the local customs and decade you were born.
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#18 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 09:58

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-August-16, 09:24, said:

Why didn't I start 1-2 ? The hand is likely to be a whole lot simpler if I do.


Check the title of the thread again. 1 2 would be a limit raise in clubs here.

David, I too try to avoid jumps once we are in a GF auction, unless I need exclusion :D
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#19 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 10:01

View PostGilithin, on 2021-August-16, 09:14, said:

If we bid 4 partner is guaranteed to continue 4. Have we actually advanced any further? Presumably you want to bid 4 next. Let's say partner then bids 5 (or perhaps 4NT if that is Last Train) - what now, are you happy? Which hands do you see getting right with this approach that we are going to fail on with a simple 4?


I don’t care for an over-reliance on keycard bids which by their nature are unilateral - I need to find specific cards in spades and hearts and that requires input from my partner.

If partner holds QJx. Kxxx, void, AJxxxx , I would expect 5C and not 4H.
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#20 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-August-16, 10:02

View Postjillybean, on 2021-August-16, 09:58, said:

Check the title of the thread again. 1 2 would be a limit raise in clubs here.

David, I too try to avoid jumps once we are in a GF auction, unless I need exclusion :D


I was simply asking a question, there is a price to be paid for all these methods, I was just checking what it meant (and whether for some reason you'd decided not to use a SJS).
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