[Cyberyeti]

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Do you play Lebensohl or reverse Leb, a transfer version, scramble, something else ?

Hand to follow

[MP7601]

I play standard Lebensohl here

[Cyberyeti]

MP7601, on 2022-September-14, 11:26, said:

I play standard Lebensohl here

Where is the delineation between good and bad for the suit bids ? You've already denied enough to overcall. Do you do anything much different to over a 2nd seat double ?

[paulg]

I play the same version of Lebensohl in response to both a second- and fourth-seat double.

I thought I'd be a little more conservative opposite a balancing double but looking at my BBO records for 2020 and 2021 the auction has only come up twice and I jumped to game opposite the double both times

[DavidKok]

I play transfer Lebensohl here - or, more accurately, something very similar to Rubensohl. I would not play reverse Lebensohl. It is technically superior to regular Lebensohl in some situations, but worse in others, inferior to transfer versions and mixups are costly.

[Cyberyeti]

The hand in question is not a very likely one to hold (although the 2 passes are not a surprise) do you double ?

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We play reverse leb, so partner would bid their suit.

What do you do over:

3♦ reverse leb, bad hand
2N normal leb
3♣? transfer

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-September-14, 11:31, said:

Where is the delineation between good and bad for the suit bids ? You've already denied enough to overcall. Do you do anything much different to over a 2nd seat double ?

A 3level overcall requires both a good suit and a good hand, so while the pass ‘limits’ the hand in some ways, by no means does it mean that advancer has to have a weak hand.

For me, 2N here would deny as much as a good eight count with a decent 5 card suit. Thus, by implication, a 3 level suit bid shows at least an eight count and a decent suit.

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2022-September-14, 14:48, said:

A 3level overcall requires both a good suit and a good hand, so while the pass ‘limits’ the hand in some ways, by no means does it mean that advancer has to have a weak hand.

For me, 2N here would deny as much as a good eight count with a decent 5 card suit. Thus, by implication, a 3 level suit bid shows at least an eight count and a decent suit.

OK, I asked the question because the double could actually be lighter than a second seat double if short in spades.

Do you pass over 2♠ wih a 3235 14 count with an adequate club suit and ♠xxx ?

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-September-14, 15:16, said:

OK, I asked the question because the double could actually be lighter than a second seat double if short in spades.

Do you pass over 2♠ wih a 3235 14 count with an adequate club suit and ♠xxx ?

At the risk of sounding like a smartass…..it depends

It depends on the vulnerability. It depends on the specifics of my hand. It depends on the form of scoring, to a modest degree. It even depends, to another modest degree, on my partner.

Yes, the balancing double can be lighter than a direct double, and of course nobody can guarantee ending up in the right spot, but we do the best we can.

[michel444]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-September-14, 11:18, said:

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Do you play Lebensohl or reverse Leb, a transfer version, scramble, something else ?

Hand to follow

2NT herbert negative 0-7 point suit 4+suit 8+point double in 4th chaire can be with a void in spade
but with 2+♠ in direct seat

[DavidKok]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-September-14, 14:48, said:

The hand in question is not a very likely one to hold (although the 2 passes are not a surprise) do you double ?

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We play reverse leb, so partner would bid their suit.

What do you do over:

3♦ reverse leb, bad hand
2N normal leb
3♣? transfer

3NT to play over the weak options (you could make a case for the perfect 7-opposite-26 making a nice slam but our spade length strongly suggests that the hands don't fit well), 3NT over 3♣ superaccept balanced, choice of games (and keeps 6♦ somewhat in the picture).

Cyberyeti, on 2022-September-14, 15:16, said:

OK, I asked the question because the double could actually be lighter than a second seat double if short in spades.

Do you pass over 2♠ wih a 3235 14 count with an adequate club suit and ♠xxx ?

Yes. 2♠-a.p. is usually a stinker for the preempter, so I wouldn't strain to keep the auction open without shape. We will miss some 14-opposite-12 games but on balance you don't do better by sticking your neck out.

[michel444]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-September-14, 15:16, said:

OK, I asked the question because the double could actually be lighter than a second seat double if short in spades.

Do you pass over 2♠ wih a 3235 14 count with an adequate club suit and ♠xxx ?

NO I Double at worse i go under if partner have a Flat hand and Zero point and LHO PASS
so he must bid 2 NT and i bid 3 club and go down but opopnets have 26point and some game !

[Douglas43]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-September-14, 15:16, said:

OK, I asked the question because the double could actually be lighter than a second seat double if short in spades.

Do you pass over 2♠ wih a 3235 14 count with an adequate club suit and ♠xxx ?

Assuming "pass over" means you are in second seat, then probably.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2022-September-15, 00:45, said:

3NT to play over the weak options (you could make a case for the perfect 7-opposite-26 making a nice slam but our spade length strongly suggests that the hands don't fit well), 3NT over 3♣ superaccept balanced, choice of games (and keeps 6♦ somewhat in the picture).

Do you expect partner to remove this with a very weak shapely hand ? 6 diamonds (43) in the non spade suits, one Q or K

How many diamonds have you shown with the superaccept ? What do you do with the same hand with ♥AKQ ♦AK ? Or indeed AKQ A AKxx in the non spade suits

[DavidKok]

I expect partner to run with a hand so weak it likely doesn't have an entry, or with extreme shape. The weak hand bids 5♦, the extreme shape one 4♦ (constructive). I'm never running from 3NT undoubled to 4m to play.

The superaccept only shows 2 diamonds, it was the wrong choice of words. Really it just shows a big balanced hand, too bid for 2NT 16-19. Balanced implies diamond tolerance but nothing more. The transfer shows some values for me, so at this point we're looking at 20+ balanced opposite 8+ with diamonds. I should probably have bid 4NT (natural) instead of 3NT over the transfer.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2022-September-15, 04:01, said:

I expect partner to run with a hand so weak it likely doesn't have an entry, or with extreme shape. The weak hand bids 5♦, the extreme shape one 4♦ (constructive). I'm never running from 3NT undoubled to 4m to play.

The superaccept only shows 2 diamonds, it was the wrong choice of words. Really it just shows a big balanced hand, too bid for 2NT 16-19. Balanced implies diamond tolerance but nothing more. The transfer shows some values for me, so at this point we're looking at 20+ balanced opposite 8+ with diamonds. I should probably have bid 4NT (natural) instead of 3NT over the transfer.

What do you do with the actual hand then (void, xxx, xxxxxx, K10xx) if the transfer shows values ? and how do you distinguish that from ♥QJx/♣xxxx ?

[DavidKok]

I bid 2NT weak, intending to bid 3♦ next. You don't distinguish between different weak hands, I'd run from 3NT with that.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2022-September-15, 04:45, said:

I bid 2NT weak, intending to bid 3♦ next. You don't distinguish between different weak hands, I'd run from 3NT with that.

It's a nasty hand particularly at MPs.

void, QJx, xxxxxx, xxxx you want to play 5♦
void, xxx, xxxxxx, Kxxx you want to play 3N or 6♦ the 109♣ is enough to make 6♦ best by a distance
void, xxx, J10xxxx, Kxxx and void QJx, J10xxxx, xxxx you want to play 6♦

On the actual hand 3N will make 12 by the big hand, 11 if you play normal Lebensohl and wrongside it, 5♦ will make 13 as clubs are 3-3, diamonds are 2-2 and the 2♠ bidder has ♣QJx

[kgr]

mikeh, on 2022-September-14, 14:48, said:

A 3level overcall requires both a good suit and a good hand, so while the pass ‘limits’ the hand in some ways, by no means does it mean that advancer has to have a weak hand.

For me, 2N here would deny as much as a good eight count with a decent 5 card suit. Thus, by implication, a 3 level suit bid shows at least an eight count and a decent suit.

I have the agreement with my partner that 2NT Lebensohl is Weak and we didn't add the requirement for 3-level call to have a good suit.
Are you doing this for both (2S)-DBL-(P)-? and (2S)-P-(P)-DBL-(P)-?

What do you bid with 4-card and not very weak or strong?
e.g. with: xx=AQxx=Qxxx=xxx or xx=Qxx=Qxxx=AQxx

[michel444]

kgr, on 2022-September-15, 06:33, said:

I have the agreement with my partner that 2NT Lebensohl is Weak and we didn't add the requirement for 3-level call to have a good suit.
Are you doing this for both (2S)-DBL-(P)-? and (2S)-P-(P)-DBL-(P)-?

What do you bid with 4-card and not very weak or strong?
e.g. with: xx=AQxx=Qxxx=xxx or xx=Qxx=Qxxx=AQxx

not sure i got the question right
answering partner double or biding after 2 S?