[gwnn]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-October-25, 02:28, said:

The other point is that if you take away ♦K, it might be worth the raise as you assume you can now afford to go for 1400 (yes you might be wrong if partner has AKxxxx).

I can never afford to go for 1400, lol, not even at matchpoints. Who knows what partner has and what % of the field actually finds the slam? I'd rather just stay put.

[helene_t]

I can't imagine not preempting with this hand. Come on, you have a decent 6-card suit, no flaws, and a singleton? I would at least consider preempting under any conditions except 4th seat or vulnerable in 2nd seat, although I probably wouldn't do it vulnerable in 1st seat and r/w in 3rd. In third seat w/r this hand is closer to 4♣ (or some psyche) than to pass, imho.

I agree with Csaba that partner shouldn't raise no matter what they expect from your hand. The preempt itself is much more effective than the raise, so unless they have enough to know that 4♣ is safe, they should just pass. From partner's point of view it looks like opps have slam, but even if you had a very sound preempt you could still go for -800 on a deal where opps may have slam but probably wouldn't bid it anyway.

A doubleton raise could work if one of the opps think that their partner must have a singleton clubs because you apparently have a 10-card fit, and then bid a slam that is off two quick club tricks. So raising on Kx or Ax can work. A raise on Kx may also inspire preemptor to underlead the ace if they have a void. But raising on Jx is completely pointless.

[sfi]

For another view, there is a top US pro who has long held the view that:

• at matchpoints
  
• in 3rd seat
  
• at favourable vulnerability

it is a huge winning position to open 3C on:
xx
xx
xxxx
xxxxx

It's a bit extreme even for me (and I'm not averse to preempting a 5-card suit here), but he's won a lot of national titles so it's worth at least paying attention to the idea.

It is clear to me that opening 3C on a wide range of hands under these conditions often turns the bidding into a guessing game where we have a significant advantage, so not doing it when we have something that looks like a middle of the range 3C bid gives up a positive position for no real reason.

[Douglas43]

LBengtsson, on 2022-October-25, 00:41, said:

I would have put the question another way. Is this worth a raise to 4♣ when partner opens white/red in 3rd seat after two passes, and RHO opp. doubles?

---

I think we all know the answer by now. So many players pre-empt at the three level with 6m that a raise to 4♣ with such a balanced hand is just poker (as someone else said). And even if partner's pre-empts are with 7m guaranteed, it is still not a worth a hike to the four level.

The one thing other forum members have not said here is that it is sometimes good to let the opps. guess what to do next after a pre-empt as opposed to forcing them into a higher-level decision which might turn out better. The higher-level decision can be worse also, obviously, so it is a two-edged sword whether to raise a pre-empt as interference. But this hand does not qualify imo.

I agree, particularly because a third hand pre-empt can be wider range. If it's lighter than usual, -800 becomes more likely, or if it's a bit stronger, we can be -300 on a part-score hand.

[Cyberyeti]

gwnn, on 2022-October-25, 04:18, said:

I can never afford to go for 1400, lol, not even at matchpoints. Who knows what partner has and what % of the field actually finds the slam? I'd rather just stay put.

I know what muy partner usually has and you can probably afford 2000

[gwnn]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-October-25, 07:55, said:

I know what muy partner usually has and you can probably afford 2000

I do not think it is winning bridge to have NV preempts promise literally nothing (i.e., "I promise I have nothing" rather than "I do not promise anything"). It's fine to play them as ridiculously wide-ranging, but to promise 0 tricks makes them pretty rare to the point of useless. The same goes with Bergen extremists advocating for "0-4" jump raises. Even assuming that it's winning boards if it comes, how often but does it?

[pescetom]

mikeh, on 2022-October-24, 17:35, said:

I don’t like holding the AQ of clubs (I’d much rather KQxxxx)…

Could you expand upon this point please?

[mikeh]

pescetom, on 2022-October-25, 15:31, said:

Could you expand upon this point please?

AQxxxx is possibly two defensive tricks. Even worse, imagine both LHO and partner have doubletons, with Kxx in dummy. They play, say, 4S by LHO on a club lead. Especially when I have the spade queen, three rounds of clubs could destroy the hand.

Contrast that with KQxxxx or even KQJxxx….far less powerful on defence while the latter holding is stronger on offence

And if RHO bids 3N on Kxx, a low club lets us run the suit should partner hold two clubs, while if declarer held Axx and I KQJxxx, I’d never be able to run the suit no matter how often partner gets in.

Now, obviously the hands will probably not be like these examples, but the point remains, imo, valid.

I remember, many years ago, an expert friend (at that point a much better player than I was) commenting after I’d opened a weak 2H in third chair with AKQxx….he said, if you’re bidding on a five card suit, it shouldn’t be that good…KQJxx would be far better because AKQxx is too good on defence.

[Cyberyeti]

gwnn, on 2022-October-25, 15:06, said:

I do not think it is winning bridge to have NV preempts promise literally nothing (i.e., "I promise I have nothing" rather than "I do not promise anything"). It's fine to play them as ridiculously wide-ranging, but to promise 0 tricks makes them pretty rare to the point of useless. The same goes with Bergen extremists advocating for "0-4" jump raises. Even assuming that it's winning boards if it comes, how often but does it?

I didn't say it promised nothing, just that he usually had nothing if I raised.

I've opened xx, xxx, xxx, xxxxx twice with 3♣, on both occasions LHO was obviously counting points and had run out of fingers and toes. The funnier of the two was where I was contemplating what to psyche when they opened 2♣ out of turn. I didn't find the winning opening bid of 5N (which they can't or at least couldn't at the time double for pens opposite a silenced partner).

The other they bid 6N on their combined 39 count after partner raised to 4♣ on Jx.