[Karert]

I know the subject has come up on here many times before – including https://www.bridgeba...eporting-abuse/ and https://www.bridgeba...-they-enforced/ and https://www.bridgeba...page__hl__abuse


But I just cannot understand how BBO tolerates or accepts abuse of the disabled community; I cannot believe they would tolerate the use of racism or racist terms, or sexism or sexist terms, but they clearly do similar with disablisity, as they clearly don’t take robust action against those using abhorrently offensive disablism terms.


I don’t mind having a discussion after a board, or just when someone points out the error of my ways – even when have the odd view that I should have drawn all trumps before using my short trumps to try to ruff a loser; or tell me I should have taken a 50% finesse against a stronger line.

I ask questions of partners, and expect the same – at least if we happen to play again together, I have a better understanding of them.


But there are lines that should not be crossed.


I was very disappointed recently to note that someone who used the most offensive disabilism term “retard” was still active on BBO.


But not only still active, whatever action was taken against them clearly done NOTHING to deter them from such offense, as they used the same term again today! (Other abuse too, but the one that causes offense is blatant disabilism.


This idea that justice cannot be seen to be done, that privacy trumps all, is itself a nonsense – there is nothing in any civilised world where privacy prevails seeing justice done, whatever the outcome.


But to see justice not done. Or for BBO to imply (via its privacy policies – they have not shown any action taken) that disablism is perfectly acceptable on its platform, is particularly concerning. What other ~isms are acceptable, BBO?


Is racism acceptable?

Is sexism acceptable?

Is ageism acceptable?

[ASC87]

Thank you for raising this important issue, Karert. I second your concern for having a safe space that is respectful and inclusive. I have been feeling similarly and have had personal experiences with this issue. It is disheartening to encounter offensive language and behavior that targets individuals with disabilities or different llevels of experience. While I understand that this is a gaming platform and some people often compare gaming spaces to what happens on other platforms like Discord, I have been part of those spaces as well. In my experience, people are generally respectful, and it’s clear that offensive behavior is unacceptable. Respect is what makes any community distinct and welcoming. Your post reinforces the need for more transparent and effective actions against such behavior. I hope the admins and players can work together to improve the standards and policies to prevent such absurdities.

Karert, on 2024-August-04, 14:42, said:

I know the subject has come up on here many times before – including https://www.bridgeba...eporting-abuse/ and https://www.bridgeba...-they-enforced/ and https://www.bridgeba...page__hl__abuse


But I just cannot understand how BBO tolerates or accepts abuse of the disabled community; I cannot believe they would tolerate the use of racism or racist terms, or sexism or sexist terms, but they clearly do similar with disablisity, as they clearly don't take robust action against those using abhorrently offensive disablism terms.


I don't mind having a discussion after a board, or just when someone points out the error of my ways – even when have the odd view that I should have drawn all trumps before using my short trumps to try to ruff a loser; or tell me I should have taken a 50% finesse against a stronger line.

I ask questions of partners, and expect the same – at least if we happen to play again together, I have a better understanding of them.


But there are lines that should not be crossed.


I was very disappointed recently to note that someone who used the most offensive disabilism term "retard" was still active on BBO.


But not only still active, whatever action was taken against them clearly done NOTHING to deter them from such offense, as they used the same term again today! (Other abuse too, but the one that causes offense is blatant disabilism.


This idea that justice cannot be seen to be done, that privacy trumps all, is itself a nonsense – there is nothing in any civilised world where privacy prevails seeing justice done, whatever the outcome.


But to see justice not done. Or for BBO to imply (via its privacy policies – they have not shown any action taken) that disablism is perfectly acceptable on its platform, is particularly concerning. What other ~isms are acceptable, BBO?


Is racism acceptable?

Is sexism acceptable?

Is ageism acceptable?

[diana_eva]

Hi Karert,

First of all, I'm sorry about this experience with offensive language on BBO. I know how distressing and hurtful these incidents can be.


BBO takes all forms of abuse very seriously, including racism, sexism, ageism, and disablism. In fact we got bashed quite a bit for banning the word "idiot" in the automated "bad words" filter. We cannot do same for "retard" because it happens for this word to come in normal sentences and describe the illness; it's not used exclusively for insults. So for this specific case (and unfortunately many others), we need to rely on manual review to see the context.

I looked for your report and found the player in question. We have taken appropriate action according to our policies. Please note that if you bump into someone who continues to use offensive language or behave inappropriately, it does not mean BBO tolerates such behavior. It's possible that we might have missed a report or that new offenses occurred after action was already taken.

While some players behave poorly (or even terrible), the majority of players are respectful and kind, making incidents like this the exception rather than the norm.

Please keep reporting abusive behaviour and you can always drop me a line at diana@bridgebase.com if you're not sure your report got through.

[hrothgar]

Few quick comments

1. My understanding is that the expression "retard" is not used in professional settings

https://www.federalr...tual-disability

It is obviously still used as an insult

2. if BBO doesn't want to block the use of this particular word because it has other - non medical - meanings, that seems fine.

[mycroft]

It's still used informally (along with i- and m-, which I have to be careful about myself, when I temporarily lose my mind). There are many who have never had the connection between the informal meaning and the medical term displayed to them. In the last few years, there has been a very strong push against the word (and good for that push), which is changing this.

There is, of course, also a mechanical use of that adjective (-ing growth, speed, etc.) that isn't denigratory. How often it is accurately used in that way on a bridge site compared to the intellectual slur ... okay, sure.

Should BBO be ahead of the curve in this case? Maybe. But I don't get a vote.

[diana_eva]

For us its easy to add "bad words" to the filter but when we did this with moron and idiot (and a few others in the same family) there was quite an outrage at what snowflakes we became and how people are allowed to self-deprecate... So I'm going to do this now and Richard is probably correct that the proportion of people who use it derogatory vs legit usage is overwhelming.

I wasnt aware its no longer accepted in professional settings, so thanks for the update, Richard.

[hrothgar]

diana_eva, on 2024-August-05, 10:54, said:

For us its easy to add "bad words" to the filter but when we did this with moron and idiot (and a few others in the same family) there was quite an outrage at what snowflakes we became and how people are allowed to self-deprecate... So I'm going to do this now and Richard is probably correct that the proportion of people who use it derogatory vs legit usage is overwhelming.

I wasnt aware its no longer accepted in professional settings, so thanks for the update, Richard.

While we're at it, can we ban the use of the word "Trump"?

[mycroft]

/me is reminded of that scientific paper of a few years ago... :-)

[johnu]

diana_eva, on 2024-August-05, 01:38, said:

BBO takes all forms of abuse very seriously, including racism, sexism, ageism, and disablism. In fact we got bashed quite a bit for banning the word "idiot" in the automated "bad words" filter. We cannot do same for "retard" because it happens for this word to come in normal sentences and describe the illness; it's not used exclusively for insults.

Really??? On a bridge site, "retard" is 1000% used as an insult.

[diana_eva]

johnu, on 2024-August-05, 15:56, said:

Really??? On a bridge site, "retard" is 1000% used as an insult.

I appreciate the hyperbole and we used to also warn and block the use of ????? and !!!!! as rude until we learned some countries are just passionate and use these as a form of excitment, not derogatory. France I'm looking at you !!!!!!!!!!

I have a feeling yours is not enthusiastic use

Joke aside, if you read the follow-up posts you'll notice that i agreed that it's an insult and the word has been added to the automatic bad-words filter.

[Karert]

diana_eva, on 2024-August-05, 01:38, said:

I looked for your report and found the player in question. We have taken appropriate action according to our policies.

Hi Diana,


Logged in this morning to find four abusive messages from the same person, including a repeat of the particularly offensive term.


I guess "appropriate action" doesn't stop this happening at all.

[diana_eva]

Karert, on 2024-August-06, 04:57, said:

Hi Diana,


Logged in this morning to find four abusive messages from the same person, including a repeat of the particularly offensive term.


I guess "appropriate action" doesn't stop this happening at all.

Maybe it was not the same person we blocked. Send me a PM with who this is.

Bad words filter does not work for offline mail, however if you put someone in ignore they are unable to private message you.

Later edit: All sorted out.

[pescetom]

hrothgar, on 2024-August-05, 11:08, said:

While we're at it, can we ban the use of the word "Trump"?

I guess we could switch to using "to ruff" as the verb and "Atout" to identify the suit, the latter acceptable even in Francophope Italy

As a native English speaker (albeit immersed most of my life in other languages) I confess I was surprised to learn that "retard" exists as a noun, let alone that it is related to people rather than to trains or whatever. Is this US usage, or was it some attempt to reduce stigma for idiot, moron, cretin and down?

[johnu]

diana_eva, on 2024-August-06, 02:03, said:

I appreciate the hyperbole and we used to also warn and block the use of ????? and !!!!! as rude until we learned some countries are just passionate and use these as a form of excitment, not derogatory. France I'm looking at you !!!!!!!!!!

I have a feeling yours is not enthusiastic use

Joke aside, if you read the follow-up posts you'll notice that i agreed that it's an insult and the word has been added to the automatic bad-words filter.

!!!!! 😀

[mycroft]

diana_eva, on 2024-August-06, 02:03, said:

I appreciate the hyperbole and we used to also warn and block the use of ????? and !!!!! as rude until we learned some countries are just passionate and use these as a form of excitment, not derogatory. France I'm looking at you !!!!!!!!!!

Diana Eva, it's clear you are not a Terry Pratchett fan, or at least one without knowledge of his opinions on multiple exclamation marks.

(or maybe you are, and are being nice again.)

If this is true, and your English (and knowledge of History-through-a-British-Lens) is good enough, go find. Please. I tell people to start with the first City Watch books, but anywhere is fine. (IMO, the first two are Pratchett thinking he should be Douglas Adams. Still very good, but the style is not what you get in the rest).

[barmar]

pescetom, on 2024-August-06, 15:02, said:

As a native English speaker (albeit immersed most of my life in other languages) I confess I was surprised to learn that "retard" exists as a noun, let alone that it is related to people rather than to trains or whatever. Is this US usage, or was it some attempt to reduce stigma for idiot, moron, cretin and down?

It was common usage in the US when I was growing up in the 60's and 70's. It literally means a mentally retarded person, but it was commonly used as an insult meaning idiot or moron.

These days the phrase "mentally retarded" is no longer used, it has been replaced with terms like "developmently disabled" or "intellectually disabled" (and probably many people who were formerly given that diagnosis are now recognized as autistic or dyslexic). So we don't even have the excuse that it's just a shorthand for the technical term -- when referring to a person it's nearly always a pejorative.

[mycroft]

The problem is that i-, and m-, and r-, among others, were all *technical terms* for different levels of intellectual disability (and one came into vogue because the others were deemed too offensive). See Wikipedia (potentially needless warning: offensive terms present).

So "this insult was used to mean [these equal insults]" isn't really a help.

[barmar]

mycroft, on 2024-August-07, 15:26, said:

The problem is that i-, and m-, and r-, among others, were all *technical terms* for different levels of intellectual disability (and one came into vogue because the others were deemed too offensive). See Wikipedia (potentially needless warning: offensive terms present).

So "this insult was used to mean [these equal insults]" isn't really a help.

This is a common progression in terminology. Look at how the terms for physical disabilities have changed over time (crippled, disabled, differently-abled), or the terms for black people.

It's quite common for a technical term to be adopted by the general public, then it gets perverted into a derogatory term, so then we need a new euphemism. This happens over and over.