[DavidKok]

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Inspired by the ongoing discussion on the same topic, here is a hand I was dealt on Cuebids today. If you choose to overcall, you have a Raptor 1NT available to you and 2♣ nominally denies four spades.

[mikeh]

I won’t play any method wherein 2C denies 4 spades.

But I’d double here anyway and hope that partner won’t bid diamonds at too high a level. I’m intending to bid notrump at some point unless the auction suggests not doing so

While I do overcall with some very strong hands, this is just too good. Make it AQJx xx x AKQJxx and it’s the easiest 2C bid in the world. I just don’t understand the mindset that says that I’m not allowed to describe my hand to partner. Wtf? Don’t any of you play with partners who know how to bid? And who in their right mind is terrified of showing a good hand with 4=6 in the blacks? I must be a very simple or stupid person because I can’t figure out how to handle this shape after a double, unless we get lucky. Conversely, even my obviously inept mind knows how to bid clubs and later show spades

[PrecisionL]

Double playing Power Doubles with Herbert Responses.

[awm]

 mikeh, on 2024-November-18, 12:40, said:

I won’t play any method wherein 2C denies 4 spades.

But I’d double here anyway and hope that partner won’t bid diamonds at too high a level. I’m intending to bid notrump at some point unless the auction suggests not doing so

While I do overcall with some very strong hands, this is just too good. Make it AQJx xx x AKQJxx and it’s the easiest 2C bid in the world. I just don’t understand the mindset that says that I’m not allowed to describe my hand to partner. Wtf? Don’t any of you play with partners who know how to bid? And who in their right mind is terrified of showing a good hand with 4=6 in the blacks? I must be a very simple or stupid person because I can’t figure out how to handle this shape after a double, unless we get lucky. Conversely, even my obviously inept mind knows how to bid clubs and later show spades

The problem is that partner may have something like Kxxx xxxx xxxx x where game in spades is excellent and he will never find a bid. Even if we give partner a red ace as well, passing 2♣ seems normal. Bidding 2♣ seems like it’s mostly relying on opponents to bid, which they probably will with a heart fit but no guarantee they have one?

[mw64ahw]

X whether Standard or a modified OS. In The OS 2N shows ♣ and another, but it is infrequent so I use the call as some preempt.

Now with about 8 points left on the table and responder passing, 1♠ is negative or a long minor, 1N is 5-7 balanced and 2♥ is a transfer. Over 1♠, 2♥ now shows ♣ and another.

[jillybean]

This is a X for me, the hand is too powerful. If I bid 2♣ partner is not going to show 4 spades and a sub min.

[DavidKok]

Good, we're doubling!

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Your call?

[jillybean]

Is that exclusion? (My attempt at humor)

Pass, I'm not in Vegas,

[DavidKok]

Bold move, playing the opponents for an undiscovered 12-card diamond fit.

5♦ is natural.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2024-November-18, 15:40, said:

Bold move, playing the opponents for an undiscovered 12-card diamond fit.

5♦ is natural.

This should be a not great one suited hand with a LOT of diamonds as a forcing 3♦ is available if you play some lebensohl variant here as you should.

KQJxxxxx and out ? I pass and hope to make it.

If partner had passed first would be a different and interesting problem as to whether the bid exists

[mw64ahw]

6♦

The only way I can make sense of the 5♦ bid is an extreme shape possibly with a void in ♥ & long ♦ missing an honour. This leaves North well positioned to take the ♠ finesse and also a ♥ trick. South can only expect a minimum takeout double not this monster so 6♦ seems reasonable.

Is 5♦ a preempt? Unlikely at this vulnerability unless a very long suit with say QTxxxxxxxx and even then I'd go via 2N.

However the 2♥ response is insufficiently preemptive unless West has a long suit too.

Waiting for the reveal.

[akwoo]

If the opponents are poor (or good but very conservative) I'll consider 6♦.

Otherwise, it's unlikely (though not impossible) that opponents have 10 hearts between them, and 6♦ stands to lose 2 off the top.

Sorry, I've thought for too long to bluff 6♦.

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2024-November-18, 15:46, said:

This should be a not great one suited hand with a LOT of diamonds as a forcing 3♦ is available if you play some lebensohl variant here as you should.

KQJxxxxx and out ? I pass and hope to make it.

If partner had passed first would be a different and interesting problem as to whether the bid exists

This is a classic misunderstanding of lebensohl. Lebensohl is not intended, in these auctions, to distinguish between non-forcing and forcing bids. It is intended to permit a weak but shapely hand to compete without partner thinking that one is showing values…say (1H) x (2H)….2N then 3D is how one should bid, say, xx xxx KJ10xxx Qx, while something like Kx xxx AQxxxx Jx bids 3D, showing values but not forcing. Forcing bids, which will be relatively infrequent when everyone is bidding, either bid the game they expect to have play or cuebid if unsure of strain or because (these days this is very rare) opener psyched and we have slam ambitions

After 1H x 2H 5D, with this huge hand, I’m passing. AQJxxxx is basically all he may have.

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2024-November-18, 19:15, said:

This is a classic misunderstanding of lebensohl. Lebensohl is not intended, in these auctions, to distinguish between non-forcing and forcing bids. It is intended to permit a weak but shapely hand to compete without partner thinking that one is showing values…say (1H) x (2H)….2N then 3D is how one should bid, say, xx xxx KJ10xxx Qx, while something like Kx xxx AQxxxx Jx bids 3D, showing values but not forcing. Forcing bids, which will be relatively infrequent when everyone is bidding, either bid the game they expect to have play or cuebid if unsure of strain or because (these days this is very rare) opener psyched and we have slam ambitions

After 1H x 2H 5D, with this huge hand, I’m passing. AQJxxxx is basically all he may have.

We have come to the same conclusion as to what he has, 4♦ also exists, not sure what it looks like in your book. The key is that it isn't KQJ 7th or 8th AND ♥A.

There is such a narrow gap in this auction between "good version but NF" and forcing, we remove it. For us, partner has 3+ diamonds or a big hand 90%+ of the time, in either case that 10 count probably wants to force. It makes it so much easier when you do have a full blown GF.

[mycroft]

I understand both sides of the "denies 4 spades" camp. I think I would argue "denies 4 spades without the strength to reverse opposite 6" - which is the upper limit for the Raptor NT Overcall, for exactly the reason that it "shows 4 spades and a longer minor, and not enough strength to reverse".

If you have a hand that is comfortable with 1♥-2♣-2♥-p; p-2♠, then fine. Partner with the 4x1 Kxxx is in great shape now. And yes, in different auctions, you have to be prepared to show the spades at the 3 level; or not :-).

So partner assumes it's a 10+ hand with clubs and no spades, and if they magically show up, we're strong enough to make whatever we bid.

Whether this hand is too strong for even that auction I'll leave to those with better judgement than I.

[DavidKok]

Reveal time!

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I tried 5NT pick-a-slam and ended in 6♦ for a terrible score. Pass is a better call.

[jillybean]

Great bid! by South