[Cyberyeti]

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I think many of us would bid 3♣ here.

Partner hesitates over 2♠.

Are you convinced that 3♣ has no logical alternative that you would even seriously consider ?

[mike777]

What would 2NT be here? Natural, good/ bad, version of leb??

3C gf? Or what?

At a minimum, 3C, is far, far from clear
With no disrespect

[jillybean]

pass is a LA

[smerriman]

There are of course logical alternatives; the question is what does the hesitation suggest? If e.g. it implied opener had spades, then pass may be out of the question.

What does double by opener show?

[jillybean]

The hesitation suggests 2 or 3 hearts, lower end of 12-15

[jdiana]

I think opening 1NT suggests 2 or 3 hearts. I agree that passing is a logical alternative though 3♣ is probably the more likely bid. The hesitation might just be South trying to remember (or work out) what his calls would mean. Depends on their level and whether they're a long-standing partnership, etc. I wonder how many intermediate players have detailed agreements regarding interference after transfers. (I think we all should, but probably many don't.)

[Cyberyeti]

jillybean, on 2025-January-05, 13:04, said:

The hesitation suggests 2 or 3 hearts, lower end of 12-15

I don't agree with that, 2 hearts and a 12 count is an auto pass.

This is our opponents' auction, so I don't know what the bids/doubles would mean, but I suspect 3♣ would be F1.

[mike777]

 Cyberyeti, on 2025-January-05, 14:41, said:

I don't agree with that, 2 hearts and a 12 count is an auto pass.

This is our opponents' auction, so I don't know what the bids/doubles would mean, but I suspect 3♣ would be F1.

Double here is certainly a logical option
Opener can start a scramble pulling to 2NT if they don't sit for penalty.

That makes more sense than bidding a forcing 3C across from wk NT

[jdiana]

Oops. I missed the fact that it was a weak NT opening. I'm not sure how that changes things. I played a strong 1NT and don't have much experience defending against weak NT openings. (For us, a 3♣ bid would not have been forcing.)

[mike777]

 jdiana, on 2025-January-05, 15:12, said:

Oops. I missed the fact that it was a weak NT opening. I'm not sure how that changes things. I played a strong 1NT and don't have much experience defending against weak NT openings. (For us, a 3♣ bid would not have been forcing.)

Playing a strong NT responder bidding 2D and then 3C is game force.

[jdiana]

mike777, on 2025-January-05, 15:20, said:

Playing a strong NT responder bidding 2D and then 3C is game force.

That would be true with no interference. In this situation, we played it as NF. Most of our system, including this piece, was built from Robert Todd's materials. https://www.advinbri...k-in-bridge/264

[apollo1201]

 mike777, on 2025-January-05, 15:20, said:

Playing a strong NT responder bidding 2D and then 3C is game force.

Unopposed, yes.

But after an overcall, you need agreements and 3m NF appears superior as you can compete with shape and some modest values. For GF hands, you still have X as the most flexible call

[pescetom]

Like many here I am in difficulty because unused to weak NT.
FWIW I see Pass and 3♣ as LAs, hesitation as suggesting exactly 3 hearts and a slow mind.
Luckily I don't need to be certain because I can poll peers of the players.

Nobody found this problem as compelling ?

[Cyberyeti]

The issue was that this event really didn't have any possibility of a poll, as it was a 4 team event, one team was much weaker and the other 3 teams were potentially affected by the result.

[mw64ahw]

After 2♦ I play 2/3N as 4♠ and 2♠ as a range ask (2N or 3♣) so X now asks. Now 3♣/Pass is to play and a direct 3♣ is looking for a minor suit fit.

[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-January-05, 16:12, said:

The issue was that this event really didn't have any possibility of a poll, as it was a 4 team event, one team was much weaker and the other 3 teams were potentially affected by the result.

This is a methods issue: the pollees have to be peers of the players, not necessarily (indeed preferably not) part of the event.

[mikeh]

Had partner passed smoothly then I can’t seriously imagine bidding. Ok, so I have a poor imagination, lol. But…partner has 12-15 and I have a very soft 6 with no assurance of any good fit. Sure, 3C could work but, in my nightmare, east now bids 3D and they reach game.

The only reason I have for bidding is that partner broke tempo. What could he have?

He should not have anything resembling a penalty double. I’ve promised nothing…I could definitely have a worse hand than this pile of dreck so no way is he looking at a penalty double hand. Not if he’s any good.

So he was thinking of bidding. Surely he can’t have his own suit, having opened 1N, so he must have hearts. Whether 3 with a maximum or 4 with a minimum is unclear….indeed, since I have no knowledge of their tendencies, maybe he would not see 3H as automatic with 4 hearts and a max,

I simply can’t see (perhaps due to my lack of imagination) how any TD could let north reopen and enjoy a good result…if he reopens, 4th chair bids 3D and 2nd chair bids 4S, making, then I’d happily let NS keep that result, lol.

I suspect it’s obvious but I detest players who bid in circumstances in which partner has broken tempo in a manner implying that bidding is likely to work….of course my view applies only when pass is a LA. You’d have to mount a very detailed argument to persuade me that (a) pass is not a LA and (b) that the hesitation didn’t suggest a desire to bid. And I doubt I’d believe you. As a friend of mine, and a former WC, said to me recently, bidding in those circumstances amounts to ‘soft cheating’

[mike777]

Fwiw I looked up my old notes for 12-15 NT.
This is from 70's and 80's. Smile.
For starters responder bids 2H, sign off.

If partner can't compete with a 4 card raise or even an adventurous 3 Card raise then pass seems normal no

[mycroft]

I don't think I go as far down the pipe as MikeH, but I would be concerned.

First, MPs or IMPs? (I see "4 team event", which implies not Matchpoints, but still).

If game is on the table (and double-fits would make that more likely), then I'd be worried about driving them to game, yeah. But at matchpoints, I'd be more worried about 300 into partscore when there's no good fit (could opener be 4=2=5=2? 5=2=3=3?) than turning -170 into -620. Having said that, here in ACBLland, I'm the only one in the room opening a 12-x NT; taking away the room for them to find the obvious game with my opening bid would be a disappointment if partner gave it back to them with a frisky balance. Where OP is, that's less of a concern.

But in the "partscore wins" case, the hesitation strongly implies heart support - what else is he thinking of doing? I guess double, if it's takeout - in which case there's a big club fit. So whatever he was thinking about increases the safety of the balance.

So yeah, the question is, is it automatic? I'd strongly think about it, at these colours. Vulnerable, at MPs, you couldn't get me to balance with a vice. No, I do not think it's automatic, even at green.

[Cyberyeti]

OK, I get the views here, hesitator actually had a 12 count with 4 hearts, 3♣ was bid and corrected to 3♥ and is solid, you can make 4 if you guess well or play really carefully, trumps QJ8xx/A9xx, stiff K onside.

We bid 3♠ over 3♥ and went -1 for a flat board.