[tgphelps]

It seems that most of of time when I open a weak 2, and partner responds in a new suit (forcing), I end up just rebidding my suit, and now we're playing for one more trick. We play RONF (raise is the only non-forcing response), and the 2NT feature-ask thing.

QUESTION: With what sort of hand should responder bid a new suit? I can imagine bidding it with his own 6-card suit, 0 or 1 card in my suit, and good strength. Something else?

[DavidKok]

Similar to this thread, in general it's usually not great to start asking for more information after a weak twp.

• If the weak two is 'sound' there's often not much more to share.
  
• If the weak two is 'aggressive' raising the level is risky.
  
• If we belong in game it's often best to just blast it and let the opponents sort it out, especially if we have limited space and tools to steer to something else with our strong bids.

Putting this together, forcing bids after a preempt are usually either for slam exploration, or some specific choice-of-game questions. They are rarely helpful for game-versus-partscore decisions. This is part of the reason why I prefer non-forcing changes of suit after a weak two.

[mw64ahw]

I don't play RONF, but play a new suit as shortage in partner's suit and a suggested better place to play with a jump in a new suit as invitational i.e. 2♥ - 3♠
If you use 2N over 2M to ask for strength/shape rather than a feature then you are in a better position to know whether you have a fit worthy of game?

After 2M
3♣ max. 6M(331) or (62)32
.. 3♦ <Shape?>
.... 3♥ (63)31 or (62)(32)
....... 3♠ concern for ♣
.... 3♠ (63)13
.... 3N (61)33
3♦ max. 4-card minor
.. 3♥ <minor?>
3oM max. (64)xx
3M min.
3N max. (63)22
This can be extended to 65s, but you play over 3N

You can play a different structure over 2♦ which is more descriptive for the weak 64s

[jillybean]

tgphelps, on 2025-September-22, 07:13, said:

It seems that most of of time when I open a weak 2, and partner responds in a new suit (forcing), I end up just rebidding my suit, and now we're playing for one more trick. We play RONF (raise is the only non-forcing response), and the 2NT feature-ask thing.

QUESTION: With what sort of hand should responder bid a new suit? I can imagine bidding it with his own 6-card suit, 0 or 1 card in my suit, and good strength. Something else?

Playing with BBO pickup partners who have shortness in my preempt suit, I often find they will take me out of the preempt and make a forcing bid with their own long, weak suit, or not so long suit. You have to resist this temptation and leave us in our known 6-0, 6-1 fit.

[tgphelps]

jillybean, on 2025-September-22, 09:16, said:

Playing with BBO pickup partners who have shortness in my preempt suit, I often find they will take me out of the preempt and make a forcing bid with their own long, weak suit, or not so long suit. You have to resist this temptation and leave us in our known 6-0, 6-1 fit.

Yes! This is the situation that keeps coming up; partners keep trying to rescue me, and making it worse. What I'm hearing here is that, if we're going to play RONF, partner better have a plan for what he'll say after I most likely rebid my suit.

[mw64ahw]

jillybean, on 2025-September-22, 09:16, said:

Playing with BBO pickup partners who have shortness in my preempt suit, I often find they will take me out of the preempt and make a forcing bid with their own long, weak suit, or not so long suit. You have to resist this temptation and leave us in our known 6-0, 6-1 fit.

It should not be their own long weak suit if you're playing RONF as per the link I posted. If their call is 16+ and forcing then raise with 3, bid 3N when max. And rebid your suit otherwise

[mycroft]

I think this is different from that other thread (on 2NT response). Here, the issue is, even though opener has said "I can only really play in my suit", preempted partner sometimes has a hand where "we can make game, but only in my suit, and only if you have moderate support."

Hence the traditional "raise with 3, rebid your suit otherwise" (and hate yourself, no matter which you choose, when you have Kx). Some allow bidding a third suit if you're 6-4 and can below 3 of your suit, or 2NT with mild fit (like xx, whether honour or no) and outside values.

But I agree with David in general - partner has preempted you out of delicate investigations most of the time. Raise or don't, and hope you're right.

[DavidKok]

mycroft, on 2025-September-22, 15:24, said:

Here, the issue is, even though opener has said "I can only really play in my suit", preempted partner sometimes has a hand where "we can make game, but only in my suit, and only if you have moderate support."

Don't play me for the perfect hand, partner. I don't have it.

[jillybean]

mw64ahw, on 2025-September-22, 11:28, said:

It should not be their own long weak suit if you're playing RONF as per the link I posted. If their call is 16+ and forcing then raise with 3, bid 3N when max. And rebid your suit otherwise

Exactly

[jillybean]

tgphelps, on 2025-September-22, 11:02, said:

Yes! This is the situation that keeps coming up; partners keep trying to rescue me, and making it worse. What I'm hearing here is that, if we're going to play RONF, partner better have a plan for what he'll say after I most likely rebid my suit.

I hear ya! PASS is a very descriptive, under utilized bid

[thepossum]

tgphelps, on 2025-September-22, 07:13, said:

It seems that most of of time when I open a weak 2, and partner responds in a new suit (forcing), I end up just rebidding my suit, and now we're playing for one more trick. We play RONF (raise is the only non-forcing response), and the 2NT feature-ask thing.

QUESTION: With what sort of hand should responder bid a new suit? I can imagine bidding it with his own 6-card suit, 0 or 1 card in my suit, and good strength. Something else?

My only thoughts are that you would hope theresponder has bid a higher ranking suit and treat it as a weak two opener and go from there - 2M over 2m situation anyway
If I responded that way I would be sayig that anyway. I think we have a better chance in M than m
I think 3m over2M would be a stronger responnse - maybe an extra trick or hopefully two since they score the same
The general idea being that as responder I have already assessed the chance in the opening suit and think we have better hope elsewhere
Its a team game and communication etc

Edit, the more I read this thread and think about the times I would bid 2M over 2m, say, I cannot for the life of me understand why it would be forcing. I could imagine opening weak two hands with a fit for responder's M where raising or going to game could work. Wow we have a fit and I have a good weak two

[bluenikki]

tgphelps, on 2025-September-22, 07:13, said:

It seems that most of of time when I open a weak 2, and partner responds in a new suit (forcing), I end up just rebidding my suit, and now we're playing for one more trick. We play RONF (raise is the only non-forcing response), and the 2NT feature-ask thing.

QUESTION: With what sort of hand should responder bid a new suit? I can imagine bidding it with his own 6-card suit, 0 or 1 card in my suit, and good strength. Something else?

Sixty-odd years ago, Howard Schenken made the case for new suits nonforcing facing a weak 2.

The example he gave had Peter Leventritt winning a board by being able to reach 3♣ holding Jxxxxxx.

I know what would happen to _me_ if I bid 3♣, however nonforcing, with a suit like that.

[Cyberyeti]

tgphelps, on 2025-September-22, 07:13, said:

It seems that most of of time when I open a weak 2, and partner responds in a new suit (forcing), I end up just rebidding my suit, and now we're playing for one more trick. We play RONF (raise is the only non-forcing response), and the 2NT feature-ask thing.

QUESTION: With what sort of hand should responder bid a new suit? I can imagine bidding it with his own 6-card suit, 0 or 1 card in my suit, and good strength. Something else?

The answer to this depends on the nature of your weak 2s. Particularly if you play wide ranging weak 2s that can be 5 card suits.

What we used to do, when our weak 2s could be xxxxx and out was play new suits highly encouraging but not forcing, so you could pass on an absolute pile and 2N was really big or balanced.

This style makes no sense if you are playing classical weak 2s with a 5 point range and a 6 card suit.

The hand you want to bid a new suit on is where the value of partner's holding in your suit has a HUGE bearing on the value of the hand. Where the value of a side suit Q is massively magnified if it's in the right place. It also matters what your responses to 2N are, we used to bid long suit features, so often we could find out that way, but if you play ogust you can't.

[Huibertus]

tgphelps, on 2025-September-22, 07:13, said:

It seems that most of of time when I open a weak 2, and partner responds in a new suit (forcing), I end up just rebidding my suit, and now we're playing for one more trick. We play RONF (raise is the only non-forcing response), and the 2NT feature-ask thing.

QUESTION: With what sort of hand should responder bid a new suit? I can imagine bidding it with his own 6-card suit, 0 or 1 card in my suit, and good strength. Something else?

You need to work out what constitutes to "a feature" (i.e. aces or kings in side suits, 3NT with AKQXXX). In general in bidding the advise is: "If partner "asks" answer him honestly."

Personally I don't like feature ask at all. It is very very rare it provides useful information, usually only for slam decisions. As we do open weak two's with 5 and 6 cards, we use 2NT to ask for min/max strength and length;
3♣: Min, Extra length
3♦: Max, no extra length
3 Major: Min, no extra length
3 Other Major: Max, extra length
3NT: AKQXXX
This provides the useful information you need to decide on the right game and/or part score way more often.

[thepossum]

Semmi-forcing
RONSF

[WasWinM]

If you don’t play them as forcing you end up preempting yourselves. I’d rather play a bad 2-level contract than a bad 3-level in partner’s corrected to suit.

[mikeh]

Late to the thread but:

My strong preference is that a new suit is forcing one round over a 2M. But over a weak 2D I think, equally strongly, that 2M should be constructive but non forcing. Typically a good(ish) 6 card suit and a sound opening hand.