[foobar]

Do folks have any recommendations for a response structure over an intermediate 2♦ opening (say 11-15ish) with no 4CM, but possibly 4+♣? In case it's relevant, 5♣-5♦ hands are opened with 2♣.

It's possible to play 2♥ as a symmetric relay with a +1 shape resolution, but it seems really cramped, and it's tough to try and fit in the invite hands over it.

[DavidKok]

A simple approach is as follows:

• 2♥: 8-11 5(+)♥ invitational nf.
  
• 2♠: 8-11 5(+)♠ invitational nf.
  
• 2NT: 10+ generic asking bid, range and feature/shortage responses (your choice).
  
• 3♣: 8-11 (5)6(+)♣ invitational nf.
  
• 3♦: 5-9 3(+)♦ competitive raise.
  
• 3♥: GF 6(+)♥.
  
• 3♠: GF 6(+)♠.
  
• 3NT: to play.

Alternatively you could play the jumps to 3M as splinter raises, but since 2♦ denies a 4cM this is likely rare and also places opener in an awkward position.
It would also make sense to give up on the 3♣ invite and just make it forcing to game or use it as a second artificial asking bid, but I'm keeping it simple for now.

[awm]

I've never found invitational NF bids that show 5+ in a suit to be particularly playable. The issue is that partner needs to bid with any maximum, or with shortness in the bid suit, or with length in the bid suit. So you only get to pass with exactly doubleton and minimum, which is quite a narrow target (especially when opener advertises an unbalanced hand). If you're almost never passing anyway, it seems better to play new suits forcing (or some kind of transfer or relay method). Here, I'd go with something like:

2♥ = spades (any strength, but 6+♠ if weak) or any exactly invitational without 5+♥ or a diamond fit
2♠ = 5+♥ and invitational or better
2NT = game forcing asking bid
3♣ = invitational or better diamond raise
3♦ = blocking
3M = natural and game forcing, setting the suit
3NT = to play

After 2♦-2♥:
... 2♠ = 0-2♠
... 2NT = 3♠ and minimum
... 3♣ = 3154 or similar, maximum
... 3♦ = 3622 maximum
... 3♥ = 3361 or similar, maximum
... 3♠ = 3163 or similar, maximum

After 2♦-2♥-2♠:
... Pass = 6+♠ not very strong
... 2NT/3♣ = natural invite, nothing about spades
... 3♦ = 5♠ and 3+♦, invite, NF
... 3♥ = 5+/5+ majors invitational
... 3♠ = long/good spades, invitational
... 3NT = to play (presumably 5♠)
... 4♣ = big two suiter (♠+♣), forcing
... 4♦ = spades and diamonds and GF
... 4♥ = 5+/5+ majors, GF
... 4♠ = to play

After 2♦-2♠:
... 2NT = minimum, at most two small hearts
... 3♣ = maximum, natural, not three hearts
... 3♦ = maximum, 6+♦, not three hearts
... 3♥ = minimum with Hx or better hearts
... 3♠ = maximum with Hx exactly in hearts (choice of game)
... 3NT = maximum, at most two small hearts
... 4m = cue for hearts with a maximum and 3♥

After 2♦-2NT:
... 3♣ = 4♣ (3♦ asks shortness)
... 3♦ = 6+♦ short clubs
... 3M = 6+♦ short in the bid suit
... 3NT = 6♦ semi-balanced

[foobar]

awm, on 2026-January-02, 04:26, said:

I've never found invitational NF bids that show 5+ in a suit to be particularly playable. The issue is that partner needs to bid with any maximum, or with shortness in the bid suit, or with length in the bid suit. So you only get to pass with exactly doubleton and minimum, which is quite a narrow target (especially when opener advertises an unbalanced hand). If you're almost never passing anyway, it seems better to play new suits forcing (or some kind of transfer or relay method). Here, I'd go with something like:

2♥ = spades (any strength, but 6+♠ if weak) or any exactly invitational without 5+♥ or a diamond fit
2♠ = 5+♥ and invitational or better
2NT = game forcing asking bid
3♣ = invitational or better diamond raise
3♦ = blocking
3M = natural and game forcing, setting the suit
3NT = to play

...

After 2♦-2NT:
... 3♣ = 4♣ (3♦ asks shortness)
... 3♦ = 6+♦ short clubs
... 3M = 6+♦ short in the bid suit
... 3NT = 6♦ semi-balanced

This seems reasonable, but does it make it difficult to know whether to explore slam with minor oriented hands over 2♦ - 2N? For example, the sequence 2♦ - 2N - 3N doesn't let leave any room to know whether it's OK to go on. Perhaps, it's best to just use 2♥
as any invite+ and 2N as 5+ ♠ invite (giving up on stopping in 2♠). Another option might be 2♥ as any GF OR invitational with 5+♠.

On an different note, what scheme would you suggest over a similar 2♣ opening? In that case, using 2♦ as invite+ relay seems obvious, and the situation is similar to IMPrecision, except that it needs to handle the LL shape in the minors.

[pilun]

We play this opening, though 10-14.

We relay with 2♥ at +1. Why should this opening miss out on the fun?

We like the diamonds to be decent if a 5-carder. If not, we shift them to 1NT or Pass. 1NT is 12-15, no major, so

♠x ♥Axx ♦Kxxxx ♣AKxx

will open 1NT and take lumps if partner transfers to spades. (though there is a mild case for bidding 2NT to show 1-3-5+4)
Opening 1NT seems the best chance to find the 5-3 heart fit.

When playing this style, (though 6+ ♦s) Paul Marston used 2♦ - 3♣ as invitational with HEARTS.

Relay +1 is okay, though cramping makes it basically GF.
2♦ - 2NT is 11-13. Opener can show a major fragment.

An issue with all this is overloading the raise. Better would be to have two ways to reach 3♦.
So make 2NT forcing, could include an invitational raise. 2♦ - 3♦ is basically obstructive.

That works, since opener has 3♣ and 3♦ as sign-offs.

Note you can't do that over 2♣ as the same 4-5 of 6+.

[pilun]

awm, on 2026-January-02, 04:26, said:

I've never found invitational NF bids that show 5+ in a suit to be particularly playable. The issue is that partner needs to bid with any maximum, or with shortness in the bid suit, or with length in the bid suit. So you only get to pass with exactly doubleton and minimum, which is quite a narrow target (especially when opener advertises an unbalanced hand). If you're almost never passing anyway, it seems better to play new suits forcing (or some kind of transfer or relay method). Here, I'd go with something like:

2♥ = spades (any strength, but 6+♠ if weak) or any exactly invitational without 5+♥ or a diamond fit
2♠ = 5+♥ and invitational or better
2NT = game forcing asking bid
3♣ = invitational or better diamond raise
3♦ = blocking
3M = natural and game forcing, setting the suit
3NT = to play

After 2♦-2♥:
... 2♠ = 0-2♠
... 2NT = 3♠ and minimum
... 3♣ = 3154 or similar, maximum
... 3♦ = 3622 maximum
... 3♥ = 3361 or similar, maximum
... 3♠ = 3163 or similar, maximum

After 2♦-2♥-2♠:
... Pass = 6+♠ not very strong
... 2NT/3♣ = natural invite, nothing about spades
... 3♦ = 5♠ and 3+♦, invite, NF
... 3♥ = 5+/5+ majors invitational
... 3♠ = long/good spades, invitational
... 3NT = to play (presumably 5♠)
... 4♣ = big two suiter (♠+♣), forcing
... 4♦ = spades and diamonds and GF
... 4♥ = 5+/5+ majors, GF
... 4♠ = to play

After 2♦-2♠:
... 2NT = minimum, at most two small hearts
... 3♣ = maximum, natural, not three hearts
... 3♦ = maximum, 6+♦, not three hearts
... 3♥ = minimum with Hx or better hearts
... 3♠ = maximum with Hx exactly in hearts (choice of game)
... 3NT = maximum, at most two small hearts
... 4m = cue for hearts with a maximum and 3♥

After 2♦-2NT:
... 3♣ = 4♣ (3♦ asks shortness)
... 3♦ = 6+♦ short clubs
... 3M = 6+♦ short in the bid suit
... 3NT = 6♦ semi-balanced

We are happy bidding 2♣ - 2M on 8-11 and a decent suit, constructive rather than invitational. Could even be weaker.
As opener, we would pass on a minimum with three trumps.
3♣ = sign-off, usually 1-6. We do 2♣ - 2♥ - 2♠ as a weak scramble, so 3-1-3-6 or 3-1-4-5.
2♣ - 2♠ is not so good since 2NT seems better as a good hand, not 1-3-4-5.

2♦ - 2♥ is GFR for us.

[Kungsgeten]

foobar, on 2026-January-02, 00:41, said:

Do folks have any recommendations for a response structure over an intermediate 2♦ opening (say 11-15ish) with no 4CM, but possibly 4+♣? In case it's relevant, 5♣-5♦ hands are opened with 2♣.

It's possible to play 2♥ as a symmetric relay with a +1 shape resolution, but it seems really cramped, and it's tough to try and fit in the invite hands over it.

An alternative to fully artificial relays might be something like this (the source document was written in 2006):

2D--
2H = Artificial. At least invitational.
2S = Natural, forcing to at least 3D.
2NT = 5+ hearts. Forcing to at least 3D.
3C = A good diamond raise, about 9-10 hcp.
3D = Preemptive raise.
3M = Invitational.

2D-2H;
2S = 5D and 4C. Unknown strength.
2NT = 6+D and extras. Suitable to declare NT (usually care more about major honors than club honors).
3C = 6+D and extrax. Not suitable to declare NT.
3D = 6+D and minimum.
Higher = Monster hand with 7+D and void in bid suit.

2D-2H; 2S---
2NT = F1. Opener bids 3C with minimum.
3m = Invitational, not forcing.
3H = Slam interest, sets clubs.
3S = Slam interest, sets spades.

[foobar]

 Kungsgeten, on 2026-January-09, 08:44, said:

An alternative to fully artificial relays might be something like this (the source document was written in 2006):

2D--
2H = Artificial. At least invitational.
2S = Natural, forcing to at least 3D.
2NT = 5+ hearts. Forcing to at least 3D.
3C = A good diamond raise, about 9-10 hcp.
3D = Preemptive raise.
3M = Invitational.

2D-2H;
2S = 5D and 4C. Unknown strength.
2NT = 6+D and extras. Suitable to declare NT (usually care more about major honors than club honors).
3C = 6+D and extrax. Not suitable to declare NT.
3D = 6+D and minimum.
Higher = Monster hand with 7+D and void in bid suit.

2D-2H; 2S---
2NT = F1. Opener bids 3C with minimum.
3m = Invitational, not forcing.
3H = Slam interest, sets clubs.
3S = Slam interest, sets spades.

I had toyed with something similar in the past. Is there a similar structure over 2♣?

[Kungsgeten]

 foobar, on 2026-January-10, 10:57, said:

I had toyed with something similar in the past. Is there a similar structure over 2♣?

Yes its the same principle:

2C--
2D = Art INV+
2M = Natural F1
2NT = Good raise
3C = Preemptive
3new = INV

2C-2D;
2H = 4+D
2S = 6+C extras, not suitable for NT.
2NT = 6+C extras, suitable for NT
3C = 6+C minimum
3new = Monster with 7+C and void

2C-2D; 2H--
2NT = F1. Opener bids 3C with min.
3m = INV NF.
3H = Slam try clubs
3S = Slam try diamonds

I guess you could use 2S as the asking bid instead, perhaps to find out if opener is 5-5, if you allow that in 2C.