[pigpenz]

Alot of times people dont alert that they are playing short club, short diamond, or preciscion. You dont see it until they have already bid

Now if they dont prealert and and opp opens 1♣ short, can you still say partner lets play this defense to their system????

Against a pair that plays preciscion i said to partner lets play this against their club bid and this against their diamond bid, the opps didnt like it cause they said we were taking away their time in the round.

In real life its easy to see a card and say lets do this, but too many people in BBO ACBL games play obscure systems [random offensiveness edited out - uday] and dont pre alert. Can anything be done about it?

[olegru]

Just advice.
On the start of each round type something like this: "Hi, We are playing SAYC". 99% opponents will let you know what they are playing, as a reply. It works
PS I am playing short club with my favorite partner. We always have a filled CC and alert our bids. I am trying to pre-alert opponents but sometimes failed to do it (just forget). If they anons their system, they automaticly remind me to anons mine.

[Robert]

Hello everyone

I always make a short pre alert about a couple of my exotic methods.

I mention our upside down carding. We do alert our bids.

I also state that we have some 'really alert' bids.

If you have a special defense to short 1C or 1D openings, why not ask about their opening minor bids 'before' playing the first board?

Regards,
Robert

[pigpenz]

this seems to be one of those nuances that you only run into playing online bridge since a majority of the players in acbl games dont bother to even post cc.

[mycroft]

A lot of players in ACBL games don't bother to even have CCs - not just online. Or their scorecard holder reverses to show what they played with last week's partner, or there's one CC, folded and in partner's shirt pocket, well it was anyway before the coffee got spilled on it. Then there's the "well, we just play standard, basically" - except for Flannery, Bergen, 2-way drury, weak NT and 2+ 1C.

I have been known to not be impressed.

Robert - self-explanation, immediately, always, and without prompting, voids the need to mention the "really alert" bids - at least online (says the person who is 90% of the time playing either 1C-1H to show spades, (1NT)-2D to show hearts, or 2C opener to show Txxx Qxx 7 KJ9xx). It doesn't stop the "do you really mean that?" questions, nor the "he really does have spades" comments when dummy comes down, but that's not my problem.

Michael.

[Robert]

Hello mycroft

I agree that self alerts solve 'most' problems on line.

Some people do not read your alerts 'if' they think that 'everyone' plays a certain method.

I play 1NT-2C-2M-4m as BABY CONFIT and almost eveyone else does not.
Sometimes players seem surprised 'even' after I alert and explain that is it a natural 4+ minor suit and a slam try in that minor.

I also play 2NT-3H=CONFIT, when almost everyone else plays Jacoby here.
Sometimes players seem surprised 'even' after I alert and explain.

Face to face the problems get much worse.
I make a short pre alert of some bids and our carding methods 'when I first sit down.' I also print out two completed CCs with full names included.

I find it very distasteful that after I just 'pre alerted', 'We play a 2+ diamond...
When my partnership 'opens' 1D(alert*) suddenly 'questions and interest' are 'only' shown when the other pair holds diamond values.

If you call the TD about this behavior, the other pair looks shocked and surprised at how anyone can question their behavior 'after' we 'opened and alerted' a
2+ one diamond opening.

I play a 'natural' Big Club system(something like Precision), however, if science is needed I also play methods 'way pass' mad science. I counted 9 out of 10 bids in a recent slam auction as being alerted. The only natural call was the final contract.

Many of my alerts* create real problems, since the other pair often refuses to believe that the bid means exactly what I explain that it means.

I use a lot of 'double transfer' methods where the first step 'forces' partner to bid the next higher step, so that I can use the added steps to describe my hand using the extra steps that are gained.

1NT-2C-2D-2M*(shows the opposite major 5+ suit) How many people play that a major suit bid here means 5+ cards in the other major?

Regards,
Robert

[Gerben42]

In online bridge with a pickup partner it will be more complicated, but offline I would expect any pair to have agreements after a short or strong Club opening bid.

[pigpenz]

true, but when you dont know they are gonna due it toyou should you be allowed to say partner what do you want to play against their short club or partnet lets play this?

[Robert]

Hello mycroft

I just visited the other bridge web site that I frequent. They have a current thread about one pair alerting his partner's 2NT in an auction(where most people play 2NT* as unusual 'for the minors') and the other pair ''states that the bid is not alertable." The agreement of the pair bidding 2NT was that the bid did 'not' show the minors.

The question raised was did your pair have any legal requirement to do anythng to 'correct' the wrong assumption of the other pair?

You are required to 'alert' any alertable bids. Are you required to 'correct' any bad assumptions that another pair makes? The general theme of the replies seems to be you do 'not' have to correct their wrong assumption.

I feel that an honorable person should make at least one efffort to explain that the bid is a 'really alert' bid', however, apparently a number of people(many of them TDs) on bridgetalk feel differently.

Regards,
Robert

[mycroft]

Funny - you might appreciate my response on that other site; or maybe not.

On some of the auctions you note above, if they don't believe you, that's their tough luck (vis. 1C!-1NT!; 2C!-2D! showing hearts - my Precision partnership plays a *lot* of transfers). As long as no questions have to be asked for the self-alert, that's their problem. The bid is coloured, and then the explanation pops up at them (at least it does for me). They're allowed to be surprised, and if they're right and the explanation is wrong, they will get redress. If they choose to disbelieve you and the explanation is right...

In the ACBL - at least face-to-face - the Announcement procedure has lifted a lot of that burden from WeaSeL-capable calls. 1D "Could be as short as 2" seems to stop most questioners in their tracks. Similarly 1NT "<range>". And I understand about the frustration - I play 4-card majors (not in my Precision partnership, of course). Only twice was I asked how many cards that promised. Both times the correct (but not given) answer was "fewer than you have, obviously".

I believe that in FTF bridge, you have done what you have to do by Alerting when necessary, and explaining at the end of the auction if you are declarer, if it's "you really should have asked about this" territory. Note that this is also ACBL Alert policy. I believe that on a site like BBO, self-alert and immediate self-explain, without waiting for questions - especially now that there's the auto-explain line right next to the Alert button, and you can do it before the bid shows up - is the right thing to do. I believe that many people don't alert things because "they don't have to at the club", which is a ACBL=the world (or Poland=the world - from my experience, the two biggest holders of this mindset) attitude that needs education.

To finish with one of DWS's comments: "there are bridge ethics and personal ethics. The two can and often are different." What is ethically required by Law and what will stop you from being happy about winning tonight are different, and as in many things, you should follow your heart (however, taking ethical gifts from the opponents and then nailing them for the same thing is opprobious in my opinion).

Michael.

[Robert]

Hello Mycroft

Your comments on 'that other site' were very interesting. The fact that others suffer when 'questions' are seemingly only asked about bids 'when the other pair holds values in the suit' gives me some faint hope. Misery loves company.

I have never stopped the 'twenty question game' about my 2+ diamond opening by answering that it could be as short as two. They alway seem very eager to find out all of the complete details about what 2+ Ds 'really means.'

Unless their partner is deaf, dumb and blind, a diamond lead 'or' shift will certainly be hitting the table at the first possible legal opportunity. Telepathy?

I have also played against people who play Michaels 'except' when they have a natural overcall of my 2+ diamond suit. By an amazing coincidence their partners always seem to 'know' which 1D*-2D* overcall is natural and which shows the major suits. If I had a suspicious mind...

Robert shakes his head slowly back and forth and decides to end here.

Regards,
Robert

[pigpenz]

what i have gone too, is keeping a text file on defenses open on my windows desktop and trying to check ccard, but when somethng comes up like 1♣ could only be 2 or one ♦ same thing i copy the defense from the text file and paste it into the window so partner can see...that is why i have asked this....because in short you are sort of saying partner this is what my bids will be but you are also lettingthe opps know so they canset up their defense to it.