[kgr]

Scoring: MP

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During a MP's Club tournement you start with passing partners 1NT rebid (maybe a slight underbid).
(p)-p-(p)-1♣
(p)-1♠!-(p)-1NT
(p)-p-(2♥)-p
(p)-???
 
1♠=T-Walsh, ♦ or Transfer to NT (if you think NT is better played in partners hand); partner only bids 2♦ with reverse force.
 
Let you play the opps 2♥ at MP's? Is DBL take-out, pentaly, values..?
(would you have invited after 1NT from partner?)
(would you choice be diff at IMP's?)

[billw55]

kgr, on Dec 2 2009, 12:36 PM, said:

Let you play the opps 2♥ at MP's?

only if I want a zero

I guess I try 2NT.

[aguahombre]

yes. What makes you think they have a fit?
no
no

[jdonn]

Double! It shows a max with 3 hearts that his happy if partner passes. I could hardly construct a better double here, maybe xxx KQx Axxxx xx although that is debatable.

Edit: Changed my mind, actual hand is officially the best double I can think of.

[gwnn]

doubles of retarded bids are for penalties. here you promise 3 hearts and a very good defensive hand.

[aguahombre]

agree with the double, but was answering the questions asked. Also didn't add how much more comfortable I would have been with a double now, if I had bid 1NT to show 8-10 using a different style. Max defense, minimum club support, max HCP.

[Phil]

jdonn, on Dec 2 2009, 01:45 PM, said:

Double! It shows a max with 3 hearts that his happy if partner passes. I could hardly construct a better double here, maybe xxx KQx Axxxx xx although that is debatable.

Edit: Changed my mind, actual hand is officially the best double I can think of.

I'd rather have four diamonds instead of five.

EZ x.

[billw55]

Apparently I am making some mistake. It is none vul and matchpoints right? I see two possibilites:

1) Partner has a barebones 4th seat opener. 2♥ seems more likely to make. 2NT probably is down, but -50 or -100 beats -110.

2) Partner has a full opener. 2♥x is likely down, but now 2NT also likely makes. +120 beats +100. OK, they could be down 2, but that's only 6 tricks, how often will that happen?

Basically, it seems to me that double works when 2♥ and 2NT are both down - but that feels like a minority case.

[jdonn]

billw55, on Dec 2 2009, 03:30 PM, said:

OK, they could be down 2, but that's only 6 tricks, how often will that happen?

We have over half the strength including great controls. The 2♥ bidder neither opened nor overcalled the round before. The opponents may not even be in a fit (in fact our side may be the one with the longer heart fit!) If partner passes our double, they are down 2 or more a great majority of the time in my estimation.

[billw55]

Interesting. Thanks!

I guess I was considering that lefty must have a good reason for sticking his neck out - why offer us 300 or 500 when we were only heading for 120 or so? But OP did state it is just a club game.

[Phil]

billw55, on Dec 2 2009, 03:43 PM, said:

Interesting. Thanks!

I guess I was considering that lefty must have a good reason for sticking his neck out - why offer us 300 or 500 when we were only heading for 120 or so? But OP did state it is just a club game.

Some people would rather roll over and die than defend a white 1N.

Double and enjoy the 300.

[whereagles]

Well, this MP stuff drove responder off bidding 2♦ the round before, which would have left him now with the easiest dbl in the world

Anyway, you should dbl. Some tables might be playing 2/3NT and you need to set them doubled to beat that. 3♦ has no guarantee of a fit and pard will probably pull the dbl with a doubleton heart anyway.

[kgr]

Thank you (I passed and partner said that pass was impossible).
...If you DBL and partner bids 2♣, what do you bid then? (or was the DBL 100% penalty?)

[aguahombre]

partner can make insufficent bids if he wants......your double showed your hand

[helene_t]

You mean if p bids 3♣? He is probably 3235 or 4225 or 4135. I correct to 3♦.

[whereagles]

kgr, on Dec 2 2009, 10:53 PM, said:

Thank you (I passed and partner said that pass was impossible).
...If you DBL and partner bids 2♣, what do you bid then? (or was the DBL 100% penalty?)

What does he mean "impossible"? Can't you have 6 hcp and 3343?

Anyway, as others said, you should pull to 3♦. Pard's clubs can't be that good (he didn't bid them over 2♥) and could even be 4 of them!!

[pooltuna]

billw55, on Dec 2 2009, 03:43 PM, said:

Interesting. Thanks!

I guess I was considering that lefty must have a good reason for sticking his neck out - why offer us 300 or 500 when we were only heading for 120 or so? But OP did state it is just a club game.

Maybe he was (he used the tantō I've been passing around) a proponent of the MP theory "never lets your opps play in 1NT"

[aguahombre]

"Never let them play in 1NT" competes with "don't waltz into a misfit auction". Both tanto's have merit.