BBO Discussion Forums: What does this double mean? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

What does this double mean?

#21 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2009-December-06, 08:25

suokko, on Dec 6 2009, 03:09 PM, said:

Why would you bid 1NT with balanced hand? You can bid 1NT with unbalanced ♣ hand.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#22 User is offline   MTSummit 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 40
  • Joined: 2009-December-05

Posted 2009-December-06, 09:08

P_Marlowe, on Dec 5 2009, 02:53 PM, said:

MTSummit, on Dec 5 2009, 01:37 PM, said:

could it be support double?

i would not understand it as penalty because he passed first, if he had no support to heart and a good hand to penalize 2D under this vul. he probably would have bid redouble?

This is not a support double situation.

A support double is made by opener, here responder made the X.

With kind regards
Marlowe

my opinion:

1) it can't be a strong hand (11p+) with short heart & 4+ diamond (or probably have bid redouble) as penalty for all opps' bids from this 2D

2) it is not good to make penalty double if the hand is not strong enough (like 7-10p), opps still have other contracts to go

3) if it was a take-out with interest in black suits (4S & 5C for example), why did he passed first? what if the opener had a weak hand with something like 2=5=4=2? it would be very dangerous under this vul.

4) i'd rather understand it as some invitational balanced hand with heart support (support double, or if anyone could find a better name), for example 3=3=3=4/3=3=4=3, 10-12p, and he could not find a good bid after the double. is it possible?

thx & regards
0

#23 User is offline   suokko 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 289
  • Joined: 2005-October-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Helsinki (Finland)
  • Interests:*dreaming*

Posted 2009-December-06, 09:18

gnasher, on Dec 6 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

suokko, on Dec 6 2009, 03:09 PM, said:

Why would you bid 1NT with balanced hand? You can bid 1NT with unbalanced ♣ hand.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.

transfers in competition of course.

But of course without transfers you could bid with this balanced 8-10 hand the 1NT to steal the contract there.
0

#24 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2009-December-06, 10:13

suokko, on Dec 6 2009, 04:18 PM, said:

gnasher, on Dec 6 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

suokko, on Dec 6 2009, 03:09 PM, said:

Why would you bid 1NT with balanced hand? You can bid 1NT with unbalanced ♣ hand.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.

transfers in competition of course.

But of course without transfers you could bid with this balanced 8-10 hand the 1NT to steal the contract there.

So why do you think I prefaced my comments with "Assuming standard methods over the double"? If you play transfers, of course it's a different question.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#25 User is offline   aguahombre 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 12,029
  • Joined: 2009-February-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. George, UT

Posted 2009-December-06, 11:01

gnasher, on Dec 6 2009, 09:13 AM, said:

suokko, on Dec 6 2009, 04:18 PM, said:

gnasher, on Dec 6 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

suokko, on Dec 6 2009, 03:09 PM, said:

Why would you bid 1NT with balanced hand? You can bid 1NT with unbalanced ♣ hand.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.

transfers in competition of course.

But of course without transfers you could bid with this balanced 8-10 hand the 1NT to steal the contract there.

So why do you think I prefaced my comments with "Assuming standard methods over the double"? If you play transfers, of course it's a different question.

Sorry, all my posts on this string were based on Transfers/1MX. For some unknown reason, I assumed wide-spread use of that ---my bad. Now I understand why my logic was rejected by several.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
0

#26 User is offline   suokko 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 289
  • Joined: 2005-October-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Helsinki (Finland)
  • Interests:*dreaming*

Posted 2009-December-06, 11:54

aguahombre, on Dec 6 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

gnasher, on Dec 6 2009, 09:13 AM, said:

suokko, on Dec 6 2009, 04:18 PM, said:

gnasher, on Dec 6 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

suokko, on Dec 6 2009, 03:09 PM, said:

Why would you bid 1NT with balanced hand? You can bid 1NT with unbalanced ♣ hand.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying.

transfers in competition of course.

But of course without transfers you could bid with this balanced 8-10 hand the 1NT to steal the contract there.

So why do you think I prefaced my comments with "Assuming standard methods over the double"? If you play transfers, of course it's a different question.

Sorry, all my posts on this string were based on Transfers/1MX. For some unknown reason, I assumed wide-spread use of that ---my bad. Now I understand why my logic was rejected by several.

Good for you!

But I would still pass many defensive hands which don't look like enough for redouble. The 2nd round double to suggest defending but letting partner pull with unbalanced hands
0

#27 User is offline   ONEferBRID 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 835
  • Joined: 2009-May-03

Posted 2009-December-06, 19:26

Trinidad, on Dec 5 2009, 07:26 AM, said:

MP pairs, unfavorable, you hold:
Dealer: South
Vul: N/S
Scoring: MP
♠ 654
♥ A9873
♦ A2
♣ KJ6
 


The auction:
 West   North   East   South
      -          -         -       1♥
   Dbl      Pass     2♦     Pass
  Pass      Dbl     Pass     ??

- What does partner's double mean?
- What do you do?

Rik

According to Richard Pavlicek's rules, it is a Cooperative DBL ( not a Competitive DBL)... and is a "penalty suggestion".

" Doubler typically holds 3 or more cards in the suit doubled, all-around values, and no fit for partner’s suit. Cooperative doubles apply in the following situations thru 3 . (Higher doubles are penalty.) "

Except for the suits involved, the 1st example given is identical to this one:

1S - X - p - 2C
p   - p - X
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
0

#28 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2009-December-07, 05:28

Regardless of it being take out or penalty, my hand sucks on offense, so I'm going to pass... lol.
0

#29 User is offline   Jlall 

  • Follower of 655321
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,293
  • Joined: 2008-December-05
  • Interests:drinking, women, bridge...what else?

Posted 2009-December-07, 05:33

Playing this as penalty is very 90s
0

#30 User is offline   Trinidad 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,531
  • Joined: 2005-October-09
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 2009-December-08, 03:01

Jlall, on Dec 7 2009, 12:33 PM, said:

Playing this as penalty is very 90s

Given that bridge is almost a century old and that the 90s were 10 years ago, I would think this means that you consider the penalty double to be modern.

However, knowing your age, I could imagine that you take the 90s as horribly old fashioned.

Which of the two did you mean?

(In my opinion, playing this as penalty is very Retro. :) )

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
0

#31 User is offline   helene_t 

  • The Abbess
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,347
  • Joined: 2004-April-22
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Copenhagen, Denmark
  • Interests:History, languages

Posted 2009-December-08, 03:35

Textbooks in use now often refer to 1960-theory as modern bidding theory, so 1990 bidding theory should probably be labeled as "futuristic".
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
0

#32 User is offline   Jlall 

  • Follower of 655321
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,293
  • Joined: 2008-December-05
  • Interests:drinking, women, bridge...what else?

Posted 2009-December-08, 11:13

Trinidad, on Dec 8 2009, 04:01 AM, said:

Jlall, on Dec 7 2009, 12:33 PM, said:

Playing this as penalty is very 90s

Given that bridge is almost a century old and that the 90s were 10 years ago, I would think this means that you consider the penalty double to be modern.

However, knowing your age, I could imagine that you take the 90s as horribly old fashioned.

Which of the two did you mean?

(In my opinion, playing this as penalty is very Retro. :D )

Rik

Luckily bidding has changed/evolved/grown since the 90s and the best bidders now would crush the best bidders then.
0
  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users