[mtvesuvius]

Who misbid here? How could we have reached this easy slam? Scoring is IMPs and nobody Vul. This is in a fairly standard 2/1 context, so I do NOT want to hear about how much easier this hand is with a strong club or Gazzilli.

---

[gwnn]

South really lost it

[mikestar13]

If South rebids 3♥ instead of 2♥, North is worth RKCB. 100% South.

[BillHiggin]

In "a fairly standard 2/1 system" this is a known problem situation. By that I mean responding 1♠ to a 1♥ opening bid while holding game forcing values and heart support. On good days, opener will rebid 1N or raise spades, then things are fairly simple. If the rebid is in a minor, you can at least use the 4th suit to establish the GF. But if he rebids any number of hearts, you are in deep stinky stuff as far as scientific bidding goes. Responder will need to guess well and will generally not be able to determine whether opener likes the spade suit or not.

[chasetb]

gwnn, on 2010-December-19, 19:46, said:

South really lost it

mikestar13, on 2010-December-19, 19:55, said:

If South rebids 3♥ instead of 2♥, North is worth RKCB. 100% South.

South may not technically have 16 HCP, but ♥AKQJ86 and ♠A begs a 3♥ rebid. I blame South fully, and see no justification for any bid OTHER than 3♥.

[the hog]

South should bid 3H

[rduran1216]

No blame. those 7 tricks are fine, but south has NADA outside that, and a 6 loser hand. Maybe North can fake a 3D bid and then raise to 4H over South's bid, this maybe lets S decide his partner's hand is good.

[wank]

south obviously.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

No blame.

One can give North 5 spades Kx in diamonds, and KQx in clubs,
he would bid the same way, and after a diamond lead even 5 can
go down.

The hands fit very well.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: I think South is supermax for a 2H call, and I may bid 3H on
some days, but this is a matter of agreement / style.

[gnasher]

P_Marlowe, on 2010-December-20, 03:58, said:

One can give North 5 spades Kx in diamonds, and KQx in clubs, he would bid the same way, and after a diamond lead even 5 can go down.

Equally, you could change North's hand to KQ10xxx 10xx x Axx and slam would be just as good.

Quote

If South rebids 3♥ instead of 2♥, North is worth RKCB.

That would get you to slam opposite xx AKQJxx Ax J10x (or, if that's not enough, xx AKQJxxx Ax xx). Do you want to be in that?

I don't think this is as easy as people's answers seem to assume.

[hotShot]

There is very little blame to assign, but your partnership should reevaluate the usefulness of the 1♠ rebid.

It's my experience that you rarely benefit from bidding 1♠ if you have ♥ support.

Depending on your agreements North could (mini-)splinter or whatever you do to show a GF rise, after that finding the slam is possible.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Has Meckwell solved this with:

1H - 1S
2C/D/H - 2S! = artificial GF ??

[mgoetze]

100% blame to the bidding system.

[gwnn]

gnasher, on 2010-December-20, 04:24, said:

I don't think this is as easy as people's answers seem to assume.

There has been four bids made by the partnership and we have been asked to name the call that lead to this less than optimal contract. I think it is clear that this is the 2♥ bid. Whether or not it would have sufficed to rebid 3♥ is another question and is not strictly germane to the assign the blame task. If there were a 10% chance of finding this slam after 3♥ and a 0% chance after 2♥, the blame is still 100% for South. And this is ignoring the possibility of missing excellent games (and the very unlikely possibility of getting too high) - in other words, concentrating on why the outcome on this particular pair of hands left a bit to be desired.

[Free]

What is wrong with South? 2♥ is ridiculous, even when not playing precision or Gazzilli

[mikeh]

I'm with Andy....I think this is far less clear than most posters seem to think.

Both players are maximum for their bids. It is inherent in bidding practice, if not theory, that when both players are minimum for their actions, they will overeach on many hands, and the corollary is that when both players are maximum, they will be too low on many hands.

I wouldn't object to 3♥ as South, on round 2...I might even choose that bid myself...I tend to junp rebid a little lighter than most, despite being, overall, on the conservative side. But to label 2♥ as 'silly' is an overbid in 2/1 methods imo.

Over 2♥, N could, I suppose, splinter, but splintering with minimal gf values in a stiff K suit seems odd.

I wouldn't blame anyone but, as S, I'd put this hand in the memory hopper as a suggestion that maybe next time I loosen up a little on my 3♥ rebid requirements.

This thread reminds me of a point I tried to make a week or so ago: I give the responsiblity for missing slam to S, who could have taken action that would have resulted in slam, but I don't blame him for not doing so.

[mtvesuvius]

I put the "ATR" in there for you, Mike

So anyway, thanks for the responses... I was North, and considered a splinter, but I think that a splinter should be stronger, and will often get us too high. If I held my partner's cards as South, I'd probably have rebid 2♥ as well, but perhaps 3♥ on a good day. My partner felt I should have splintered in ♦. I thought there was very little blame to go around, but if any, partner could have rebid 3♥.

A more interesting problem I suppose would be if I posted the S hand as a rebid problem...

[han]

gwnn, on 2010-December-20, 05:55, said:

There has been four bids made by the partnership and we have been asked to name the call that lead to this less than optimal contract.

Disagree. Mtvesuvius asked who misbid, which is both entirely different and much more interesting.

[gwnn]

han, on 2010-December-21, 07:09, said:

Disagree. Mtvesuvius asked who misbid, which is both entirely different and much more interesting.

I don't want to sound like mgoetze on purpose but is it really "entirely different" ? Surely there is a great deal of correlation between misbids and bids that lead to a less than optimal contract?!

That said, I concede that my paraphrasing was somewhat inaccurate. Anyway, out of the four bids it is clear to me that three of them are good bids and one of them is a misbid. If we miss slam after 3♥ some amount of the time, it does not mean that 2♥ is not a misbid, which was my point. Do you agree with that?

[kenrexford]

Double T's are incredibly difficult to bid, even with tools.