[cnszsun]

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[the hog]

If you are asking "Would you bid 5D?", the answer is "of course".

[pooltuna]

yeah I bite the bullet for 5♦ even tho I have no clue if I am attempting to make or bidding a sac.

[Trinidad]

Nope.

Feel free to call me a whimp.

Rik

[655321]

Unusually for me, I agree with the porcine and the piscine bids.

[HeartA]

5♦

[whereagles]

Gonna pass. Give pard something normal like KJTxxx and a side ace and we're going 3-4 down vs game only.

[mgoetze]

whereagles, on 2011-January-18, 09:58, said:

Gonna pass. Give pard something normal like KJTxxx and a side ace and we're going 3-4 down vs game only.

That's a normal 3-level overcall? Wow, I guess I still have a lot to learn.

[ArtK78]

I would expect a whole lot more than KJTxxx and an outside A for a 3♦ call into a live auction.

I bid 5♦ to make or a near make. I don't think it is close.

[whereagles]

Guys, this opps have bid and raised. 3♦ on a hand such as that one is next to risk-free.

[y66]

Pass.

If pard has Axxx x KJTxxx Axx, 5DX is off 2 and 4H is not even making unless dummy is short in diamonds.

[ArtK78]

y66, on 2011-January-18, 15:00, said:

Pass.

If pard has Axxx x KJTxxx Axx, 5DX is off 2 and 4H is not even making unless dummy is short in diamonds.

And if partner's 3♦ overcall looks something like:

Ax
--
KJxxxxx
AQxx

Both sides may be cold for their games.

And please don't tell me that this is a 5♦ overcall. But I admit that this hand has only 13 cards.

[y66]

My partner has 14 cards more often than he has either of those 2 hands when he overcalls 3D NV.

[inquiry]

mgoetze, on 2011-January-18, 10:01, said:

That's a normal 3-level overcall? Wow, I guess I still have a lot to learn.

No one is here specifically to teach you, but perhaps you should look up OBAR bids. (Opponents bid and raise).... partner will be short in hearts and long in diamonds. How much he has is, well, open for speculation in this case. Now for people who have never heard or played OBAR bids, then, no partner will not have as little as six diamnods to the KJ and and a side ace. But for others, that is about right for a minimum.

[rduran1216]

Are OBAR bids this uncommon?

bidding 5D begs for 5 or 800. Partner is allowed to bid our hand after 1M p 2M just to compete.

[the hog]

OBAR bids are not this uncommon, but what is the point of making one with this hand? Can ypu possibly outbid the opponents? No. So you are making a noise because you like the sound of your own voice. What pray tell, would you do with Art's posted hand? Double? Please!!

[quiddity]

the hog, on 2011-January-19, 01:59, said:

OBAR bids are not this uncommon, but what is the point of making one with this hand?

Push the opps to the 3-level (without relying on partner to take a risky action on a weak flat hand with heart length)?
Suggest a sac if partner shows up with diamond support and shape?

[the hog]

quiddity, on 2011-January-19, 13:32, said:

Push the opps to the 3-level (without relying on partner to take a risky action on a weak flat hand with heart length)?
Suggest a sac if partner shows up with diamond support and shape?

Gives partner a chance to stuff up because he expects a better hand?

[inquiry]

the hog, on 2011-January-19, 01:59, said:

OBAR bids are not this uncommon, but what is the point of making one with this hand? Can ypu possibly outbid the opponents? No. So you are making a noise because you like the sound of your own voice. What pray tell, would you do with Art's posted hand? Double? Please!!

Well, I for one am certain that partner DOES NOT HOLD Art's hand. For one thing, that means that the Four heart bidder bid 4♥ on a minimum count or the 2♥ bidder raised on nothing. Why, they hold only 18 hcp for their 1H-(p)-2H-(3D)-4H. True opener could have a diamond void, but still that is a lot of bidding on very few hcp. The simpliest bid in bridge is to add your hcp to partners minimum when a fit is found to figure out if you have game chances. The 4H bidder added his to whatever the minimimum 2H was and said, yes, we have game. Let's assume for sake of argument they play constructive raises so a reasonable minimum is 8 points. Opener needs 18 points. With five for a void in diamonds, that means 13. Their 13 + 8 is still more than they can hold if partner has Art's hand. So let's dismiss that one.

As for OBAR bids, you are not vulnerable. Your parnter has a reasonable understanding that you guys don't have game if he is weak (you didn't bid over 1♥) but there are alot of reasons for "pre-balancing" when short in hearts. He KNOWS you have something like 3 or 4 hearts and you couldn't bid over 1♥ and if he passes they might play 2♥. Larry Cohen "preaches" (right word) about not letting "them" play in their eight card fit at the two level. So a lot of players with six diamonds and heart shortness NOT VULNERABLE will bid 3♦ on "any reasaonable excuse." Perhaps you will not, perhaps your partner will not. But to consider the possibiliy in a random post with no discription of the partners is surely not out of the question. In fact, I suspect that is the question. If partner has to have a hand like ART's, we all know what to do. What we have to factor in is the bidding, the vulnerability, and the likelyhood our parnter has actually read some books (noteably to bid or not to bid where I think OBAR BIDS might have gotten their name, but surely discussed).

I have partners I would bid 5♦ with, and partners I would pass with. You can guess which ones play OBAR BIDS.

[the hog]

I take your points, Ben, but the op did not say this was with a pick up pd. Further one thing I really learned in a strong regular partnership, was to trust my partner. If my pd made a bid which we had discussed, (or had a meta agreement about), then I trusted him to have his bid, and not the opponents to have theirs.