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Should this be found? How easy is the defense?

#1 User is offline   BunnyGo 

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Posted 2011-January-19, 17:47

This hand came up in a university bridge club (low key game with a mix of players from beginners to advanced).


The North player was a beginner (first time playing) to explain the bidding. The South and West players were advanced players. The lead was the ten of spades, and East won the trick with the Ace (do you agree with this play?). If you do take the Ace, what do you lead next?
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#2 User is offline   karlson 

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Posted 2011-January-19, 18:32

I would shift to a club. This seems necessary if we need to set up three club tricks before partner's diamond entry is knocked out. If we need to switch to hearts, we'll still have another chance.
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#3 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-January-20, 04:01

 karlson, on 2011-January-19, 18:32, said:

I would shift to a club. This seems necessary if we need to set up three club tricks before partner's diamond entry is knocked out. If we need to switch to hearts, we'll still have another chance.

I am not convinced.
If you switch to and partner has a entry, you will almost always come to at least 2 tricks, a trick and the two black aces for one down. Even if declarer has 4 tricks he will have to develop a trick in eventually and he will probably go after first. If he first plays a from the table, which you duck of course, you are certainly not worse of than if you had switched to yourself.
Since declarer may have 2 stoppers, you can not afford to wait.

Switch to a small . The contract will almost certainly go down with only one entry in partner's hand

Rainer Herrmann
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#4 User is offline   karlson 

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Posted 2011-January-20, 04:39

 rhm, on 2011-January-20, 04:01, said:

If he first plays a from the table, which you duck of course, you are certainly not worse of than if you had switched to yourself.



That's true as long as we don't immediately give up an 8th or 9th trick by switching to hearts when declarer has the Q. A club might also work when passive defense is required. For instance imagine KJxx Txx AKQx Kx, or KJxx Qx Axx KQJx (declarer wins the heart plays clubs and eventually strip squeezes us out of the HK.).

Obviously I can also construct hands where heart is right (KJxx Qx AKxx KQx seems to be what you're afraid of, KJxx xx AKQx KQx is also something plausible). It seems like a little bit of a guess.

Honestly none of these hands give partner much of a double and I'm as aggressive as anyone at doubling here!
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#5 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-January-20, 05:19

 karlson, on 2011-January-20, 04:39, said:

That's true as long as we don't immediately give up an 8th or 9th trick by switching to hearts when declarer has the Q. A club might also work when passive defense is required. For instance imagine KJxx Txx AKQx Kx, or KJxx Qx Axx KQJx (declarer wins the heart plays clubs and eventually strip squeezes us out of the HK.).

Obviously I can also construct hands where heart is right (KJxx Qx AKxx KQx seems to be what you're afraid of, KJxx xx AKQx KQx is also something plausible). It seems like a little bit of a guess.

Honestly none of these hands give partner much of a double and I'm as aggressive as anyone at doubling here!


My congratulations, quite ingenious constructions, creating a strip end play in hearts against East.
But they have little to do with your original reasoning for switching to .
On the first layout my guess is that very few would lead anything but a club and few would double.
On the second declarer would have to play with mirrors to succeed
The trouble with your constructions is that partner does not hold an entry, which I think he should have given his double and this is certainly at least very likely.

I still think a is indicated and in my opinion and it is not close.

Rainer Herrmann
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#6 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2011-January-20, 05:56

If partner's diamond entry is the king or queen I don't think declarer would attack diamonds first if he has a choice. He can see that his LHO is the dangerous hand. But I have no idea what declarer bid 1NT on, what partner doubled on, and what dummy invited on.
On balance, I guess Rainer is right as there are many hands where declarer doesn't have a choice and has to attack diamonds first (as playing diamonds first gives him an entry back to dummy).
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#7 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2011-January-20, 07:37

C2 switch.
Even an on-lead game double suggests dummy's first bid suit.
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#8 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2011-January-20, 10:20

Duck the first trick quite clearly. No shift has that much haste on this hand, unless declarer has 6 diamonds (Which is not that far-fetched, and will make my entire defence look silly. But ***** happens, and I wont cater to it). I want signals from partner and/or other information, so I encourage in spades at trick one, and if I am forced to make a discard, it will be another spade. If clubs are essential, partner should be able to figure out, that a clubswitch is "safe" from his hand. (Giving declarer an essential guess is an illusion; if he has KJ, he is bound to get it right almost all the time.)

If I am somehow forced to take the first spade, my continuation will be a crude A, to get a signal from partner. If he encourages I continue, if not, it is a heart. (The arguments are the same as above.)
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We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

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#9 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2011-January-20, 10:56

I'd duck the first trick.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#10 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-January-20, 13:03

I'm lousy at putting together ingenious constructions after staring at the ceiling for 20 minutes after winning the A. In general, I would rather retain a major tenace. Crude analysis I know.

Duck the 1st trick and try to get more information.

What happens then?
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#11 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2011-January-20, 19:26

Can someone tell me a hand that partner would double on with 3 spades that would pass 1NT instead of raising while white? Not to mention they seem to have only 3 or 4 points. I'm so confused right now.
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

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#12 User is offline   BunnyGo 

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Posted 2011-January-21, 01:13

 kayin801, on 2011-January-20, 19:26, said:

Can someone tell me a hand that partner would double on with 3 spades that would pass 1NT instead of raising while white? Not to mention they seem to have only 3 or 4 points. I'm so confused right now.


Yes, indeed, I didn't post the whole hand yet because when I reconstructed it from my memory West didn't have a double (in my opinion). But remember this was an informal game among friends.
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#13 User is offline   gszeszycki 

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Posted 2011-January-21, 07:06

P may have something similar to
T9
xx
QTxxx
QJTx maybe QT9x

p can tell you probably have 4 hearts so opps have no suits to run

While speculative it is not w/o merit to X 3n on this auction.
Of course the more featherweight your 1s opening might be
the more speculative the X becomes.

I agree with ducking spade and encouraging. If I get in first
I will lead a small spade. This gives declarer nothing they cannot
get for themselves and caters to P having T9.
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#14 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-January-23, 03:30

do we get to see the actual layout?

Rainer Herrmann
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