[opferbid]

Hi guys,


I held this hand today and wondered what I should rebid. It has a lot of trick potential
but both majors are unstopped. I did not want to bid 3♦ on such a shape, thus I tried
2 ♣ hoping to be able to get in 3♦ later....

What are your thoughts about this?

kind regards

---

[Phil]

As usual, the auction would be helpful.

The super-sized hand diagram is nice on these old eyes though.

[opferbid]

Hi again,


think I fixed it now. I'm not really familiar with this software so give me some tries .

best regards

[jillybean]

I think 3♦ best describes this hand but what do I know.
Did you get to play in 2♣?

[mtvesuvius]

There are not many options on this hand. Although it has a great trick taking potential, partner needs to have the ♦A, and/or both majors stopped for 3N to be making. You are correct that with this shape, you cannot rebid 1 or 2 NT. This only leaves a few options. With a 3 card difference in the suits, it's not a good idea to show the secondary suit... Especially here, where the diamonds are so good.

There are only two options left now: 2 and 3♦.

Since the hand has to much trick-taking potential, as well a nice 7 card suit, and a 16 count, I think 3♦ is a perfect description. Rebidding 2♣ is not forcing, and will mislead partner in the long run.

[opferbid]

Thanks for the answers. Fortunately I didn't play in 2♣. As far as I remember my partner could rebid 2NT and we played 3, which made. Both ways lead to success here,
because partner has something. Anyway I am now convinced that 3♦ is a better description of my hand with a 3 card difference in the suits.

To further support this I can add that I sometimes bid 1♦ followed by 2♣ with 5 clubs and 4 diamonds to avoid rebid problems after 1♣ - 1Major by partner. So Partner will probably pass 2♣ too often...

kind regards

[MrAce]

I am a 2♣ bidder.

When i bid 2 ♣ i show 9 cards to partner (5♦+4♣) when i rebid 2 or 3♦ i show 6 cards of my hand. Upper range of 2♣ is not any less than 3♦ rebid.

When i skip ♣ and bid ♦, partner will not bother to bid his ♣, and even if he does we will not know if he bid because he has them or showing a concern in unbid suit for 3 NT.

Here is some guidelines that you may want to use when deciding to bid your second suit or rebidding first suit

XYX and XXY (X= first suit and Y = second suit) principles apply to opener’s rebids when he holds 2 suits (or 3).

When Opener Bids a 2nd Suit and Later Returns to His 1st Suit he guarantees extra strength. (XYX)
If responder's last bid would normally have been invitational, the auction becomes GF (no re-invitations).

NOTE: No X Y X if opener rebids his second suit at 1 level and also no X Y X when primary suit is ♠ and secondary is ♥

So it works usually like this;

- X X Y = minimum
- X Y X = Extras
- X Y Y = min+
- X Y Z = Extras.

If responders second bid was an invitational bid, for example 2 NT, then;

-X X Y = Non Forcing (exception is if Y = reverse, or if Y is major when X is minor)
-X Y X = Forcing
-X Y Y = Non Forc
-X Y Z =Forcing

[rogerclee]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-January-20, 18:19, said:

You are correct that with this shape, you cannot rebid 1 or 2 NT.

I lol'd.

[JLOGIC]

Rebidding 2N and 2C are about the same level to me

[Lurpoa]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-January-20, 18:19, said:

There are not many options on this hand. Although it has a great trick taking potential, partner needs to have the ♦A, and/or both majors stopped for 3N to be making. You are correct that with this shape, you cannot rebid 1 or 2 NT. This only leaves a few options. With a 3 card difference in the suits, it's not a good idea to show the secondary suit... Especially here, where the diamonds are so good.

There are only two options left now: 2 and 3♦.

Since the hand has to much trick-taking potential, as well a nice 7 card suit, and a 16 count, I think 3♦ is a perfect description. Rebidding 2♣ is not forcing, and will mislead partner in the long run.

Don't see your logic behind "With a 3 card difference in the suits, it's not a good idea to show the secondary suit". Can you explain ?
Indeed, 2♣ is not absolutely forcing, but if partner passes this, it must be he has absolutely nothing....

Also: I like to reserve 3♦ for slightly stronger hands. In the long term, that is better for the partnership.

[opferbid]

This seems to be really difficult.

Can see the point of the 2♣ bid, which I intuitively chose, too. Partner will not expect auch an extreme hand when you bid 3♦ as he only knows 6 cards (good point), compared to 10 cards when you manage to bid 1♦,2♣ and 3♦. Thus he will bid 3NT too often when 5 Minor is
preferable because he will also bid 3NT with only one stop in the other major, not expecting me too need so much help there (e.g. Axxx Qxx xxx Qxx or Kxxx Jxx Ax Qxxx
will not even think about exploring 5 of a minor).

On the other hand I think even though 2♣ can be bid with 18HCP partner does not have a rebid with every 8-9 or even 10-count. If he does not have a fit for any of my minors he might pass with say KQxx QJxx xx Jxx or similar, even with a 10-count 2NT would be quite agressive because opposite a minimum 2NT might be in danger from his point of view with 22 combined HCP and no fit... Whereas after 3♦ Partner has an easy 3NT with this hand. In addition to this ops will find the right lead most of the time when I bid diamonds and clubs but will lead a club once in a while against 3NT when I keep quiet about my club suit....

All in all I think it is pretty close. I think I lean towards bidding 3♦ but am not sure if it is really best.

[whereagles]

Even though 3♦ will probably work out best, I don't like the idea of burying the clubs, so 2♣ for me.

[y66]

3D. I don't like the idea of obscuring the nature of my hand.

[the_dude]

I'm surprised no one is jump shifting to 3♣ on in this hand .. on the way to 5 of a minor more likely than 3NT.

If partner has an ace-less minimum .. you pay off and go down.

When partner has a minimum that includes an Ace .. you probably have a good play for game.

When partner has 2 aces, slam is going to be a heck of alot easier to bid after a jump shift.

[hotShot]

What would 3♣ promise?

[cherdano]

the_dude, on 2011-January-21, 07:48, said:

I'm surprised no one is jump shifting to 3♣ on in this hand .. on the way to 5 of a minor more likely than 3NT.

If partner has an ace-less minimum .. you pay off and go down.

When partner has a minimum that includes an Ace .. you probably have a good play for game.

When partner has 2 aces, slam is going to be a heck of a lot easier to bid after a jump shift.

We don't have the ♣Q.

[the_dude]

hotShot, on 2011-January-21, 07:51, said:

What would 3♣ promise?

Standard jump shift, 5/4+ 19+, forcing to game.

Over 3X I'm bidding 4♦ which should clarify my hand. Partner can now cue bid with a good hand and sign off in 5♦ with a bad hand.

I just feel that 3D can lead to some good missed vul games .. am I being overly optimistic?

[mtvesuvius]

Why are we looking for a second strain to play in when we have a great diamond suit?

You lost me at "XYX", Timo... 3♦ describes the hand very well, and 2♣ does not. In fact I prefer to rebid 2N than rebid 2♣!

A jump shift into 3♣ I usually play as GF anyway, but even if it wasn't, this isn't enough for it IMO.

[MrAce]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-January-21, 09:47, said:

Why are we looking for a second strain to play in when we have a great diamond suit?

You lost me at "XYX", Timo... 3♦ describes the hand very well, and 2♣ does not. In fact I prefer to rebid 2N than rebid 2♣!

A jump shift into 3♣ I usually play as GF anyway, but even if it wasn't, this isn't enough for it IMO.

Adam, you are right. Believe me or not i just saw we have 7♦.(I think i am not used to see 10 instead of T, i thought i had 2♠ i guess). There is a great danger of playing to a 4-3♣ fit instead of 7-1 ♦ fit and danger of missing cold games when partner has a clear pass to 2♣.

I like the 3♣ idea though now, and of course 3♦ too, knowing the 7 cards ♦ suit.

About XYX, it is of course 2 suiter rebids of opener. Not a 7-4 hand where 7 card suit is semi solid. Designed for the 6-4 or 5-5 hand bidding patterns. (Note that opener has to bid his second suit at 2 level or there is no XYX or XXY principles)

[Fluffy]

IF for some reason you don't wanna bid 3♦, then your obvious second choice must be 3♣