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wrong opening

#1 User is offline   dbl118 

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Posted 2011-November-25, 10:47

This just happened. Human was North. Aside from east's terrible opening bid, west failed in the most obvious of signals and they couldn't find the easy switch.



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#2 User is offline   cloa513 

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Posted 2011-November-25, 21:36

View Postdbl118, on 2011-November-25, 10:47, said:

This just happened. Human was North. Aside from east's terrible opening bid, west failed in the most obvious of signals and they couldn't find the easy switch.




I find it hard to believe GIB would open that badly. Was this a hand you played yourself or do you know the handle of the human? Then it should be possible to find the hand on myhands.
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#3 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2011-November-26, 00:54

In first seat GIB opens that hand 1, in third seat it's 2. The suit quality isn't good enough for 3.

GIB's discarding is currently very simple: it generally discards from the longest suit it can afford. The only signal it gives is count, not attitude. Figuring out what partner needs to know is a hard AI problem (even human bridge players sometimes have trouble with this).

#4 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-November-26, 01:41

The hand was played under OP's handle, at precisely the time indicated by the timestamp of his post. 2 was the common bid for East-GIB. (I didn't check them all.) See traveller:
http://online.bridge...username=dbl118

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#5 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-November-26, 02:12

View Postbarmar, on 2011-November-26, 00:54, said:

View Postcloa513, on 2011-November-25, 21:36, said:

View Postdbl118, on 2011-November-25, 10:47, said:

Aside from east's terrible opening bid...
I find it hard to believe GIB would open that badly.
In first seat GIB opens that hand 1, in third seat it's 2. The suit quality isn't good enough for 3.

Barry: Hopefully, your explanation was a direct response to Cloa's comment, and there will also be a response to OP's suggestion that the 2 bid stinks.
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#6 User is offline   cloa513 

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Posted 2011-November-26, 06:39

Why can't West open with that hand 1 its got 5 shortage TP and 9 HCP?
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#7 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2011-November-26, 10:42

GIB's opening 1 bids require at least 11 HCP and 12 Total Points. West's hand has 14 TP, but only 9 HCP, so it's not an opening hand. And it's not a 3 hand because GIB plays disciplined preempts in 1st and 2nd seat; with most of the strength outside its suit, it's not a good hand to preempt with.

As for whether East's 2 bid stinks, I think that's a matter of opinion. I personally like wide-ranging preempts in 3rd seat; you're not likely to miss a game, and it makes things harder for the opponents. I would probably open 1 myself, but I think 2 is defendable.

This hand is kind of a freak (it looks like it belongs in a Ghoulash tourney), and freaks are hard for humans, too. I'm not sure we should make decisions about GIB's bidding and defense based on this.

#8 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-November-27, 09:01

View Postbarmar, on 2011-November-26, 10:42, said:

GIB's opening 1 bids require at least 11 HCP and 12 Total Points.
It appears to me that East's hand meets this requirement.

View Postbarmar, on 2011-November-26, 10:42, said:

As for whether East's 2 bid stinks, I think that's a matter of opinion. I personally like wide-ranging preempts in 3rd seat; you're not likely to miss a game, and it makes things harder for the opponents. I would probably open 1 myself, but I think 2 is defendable.

This hand is kind of a freak (it looks like it belongs in a Ghoulash tourney), and freaks are hard for humans, too. I'm not sure we should make decisions about GIB's bidding and defense based on this.

In a poll posted in the SAYC-2/1 forum, neither 2 nor 3 has received a single vote out of the 18 cast.
http://www.bridgebas...age__mode__show
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#9 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2011-November-27, 15:26

OK, I'm convinced. Georgi, can you make it so?

#10 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2011-November-27, 16:23

Thank you.
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#11 User is offline   georgi 

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Posted 2011-November-29, 04:44

It's adjusted.

So hands like:
AKxx Axxxxxx xx x
AKx Axxxxx xx xx
AKxx Axxxxxxx x x -> will open 1
etc which seem quite loaded with TP, not only HCP


AQx Axxxxx xx xx -> will open 2

AQx Axxxx xxx xx -> will pass.

The values in spades could be put in clubs, diamonds of course.

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