[bd71]

A relatively new partner and I were talking about overcalling with 55 hands, and when to use Michaels vs. bidding the suits independently. Neither of us is convinced we have historically taken the best approach here.

Partner's approach has been a "know it when I see it" approach taking into account vulnerability, MPs vs. IMPs, and the hand into decided the best approach, although that most frequent conclusion has been using Michaels to get the suits in quickly.

My approach has been more of a rote-learned "Michaels with minimum or maximum (where you then bid again), bid the two suits independently with around a normal opening hand." I have never really taken vulnerability or scoring into consideration.

We both realized that ODR is probably an important factor that could play into our agreements here, but neither have really applied it in the past.

So the ask: what treatments/agreements do Adv/Exp folks out there have in this situation that you all would recommend we adopt?

[ArtK78]

The traditional approach for Michaels cue bids is that the hands are either minimum or maximum (in other words, Michaels hands are either weak or strong, but not in between). In recent years, more and more players have decided that getting into the auction and showing shape in one bid is more important than the additional accuracy gained by the minimum/maximum approach, especially at matchpoints.

Using the minimum/maximum approach, one would have to bid one suit and then the other suit if the hand was too good to be considered "weak" but not good enough to be considered "strong." This approach often buries the second suit.

In my opinion, currently more players are bidding Michaels regardless of the strength of the hand than are using the traditional minimum/maximum approach.

[whereagles]

As above. Shape first is becoming increasingly dominating. You'll show your strength later. Obviously, this isn't to be overcooked. You don't want to overcall 1S-2S on

xx
AKQJx
x
xxxxx

With such a suit disparity, a 2H overcall would probably be better than michaels.

[Mbodell]

And vulnerability and strength matter a fair bit. You don't want to overcall Michael's when it is very unlikely that your side will win the contract (like when you are minimum and unfavorable, you are unlikely to sac or make and you just help the opponents in the declaring).

[Cascade]

I wouldn't bid Michaels with weak hands except when there is a good chance that your side will find a paying sacrifice which for me eliminates everything other than favourable vulnerability. I think you pay off far to much in helping the opponents compared to the gain.

[Siegmund]

There seems to be a trend towards using Michaels all the time instead of the weak-or-strong approach, though I personally am not convinced this is a good thing.

My own preference, actually, is to bid out the 5-5s, and use the cuebids for the otherwise difficult-to-bid 4-5s, if I can do so at the 2-level, as I described in this short article. The 1950s ancestor of this approach, Roman jump overcalls, is described in many of the convention books, and the hand-strength judgement question is covered at some length in Klinger's LTC book, if I recall.

[aguahombre]

What's your game style?

The "wide-range" people focus on the bid itself being sufficiently nuisance in nature to produce a plus effect.

The "split-range" people want partner to be making level-related decisions (which are hard for him to do if the range is wide). IMO, the split range works better, if there is appropriate attention to colors and position; and if the "strong" variant is very, very strong, regardless of colors.

[han]

If you ask abstract questions you risk receiving nonsense for answers. Not wanting to look as foolish as some of the posters above, I will not answer your question but give one example hand instead.

♠x
♥KQ109x
♦x
♣AQ10xxx

RHO opens 1S, form of scoring and vulnerability of your choice.

I think that if your methods do not allow for a 2-suited call on this hand, then you are paying a big price.

[phil_20686]

I think intermediate plus is a much better agreement than split range. I like to be able to get hands like x KQTxx KQTxx xx into the auction at once. If RHO opens 2S and you overcall two hearts, you are unlikely to feel entirely comfortable when partner doubles 4S. Further, you probably dont have the defence he is expecting for a 2/1 overcall. Finally, being forced to pass this hand is unthinkable. Thus, to my mind, putting it through micheals is a huge winner.

[aguahombre]

phil_20686, on 2011-December-04, 10:22, said:

I think intermediate plus is a much better agreement than split range. I like to be able to get hands like x KQTxx KQTxx xx into the auction at once. If RHO opens 2S and you overcall two hearts, you are unlikely to feel entirely comfortable when partner doubles 4S. Further, you probably dont have the defence he is expecting for a 2/1 overcall. Finally, being forced to pass this hand is unthinkable. Thus, to my mind, putting it through micheals is a huge winner.

Apparently "intermediate" is in the eye of the beholder. On my planet, X AKJXX AQTXX XX is intermediate.

And "very, very strong" is about two tricks better than that.
But, others have told me I inhabit a small planet.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2011-December-04, 12:08

[TWO4BRIDGE]

My only suggestion is to try Bailey Cuebids ( as opposed to Michaels ) because it can always get spades + minor 2-suiter into the picture whereas Michaels cannot.
Bailey:
For example, you have a 5/5 in Sp + Diam ( or Hts ) :
( 1C ) - 2C! = Spades and either Hts or Diam ; whereas Michaels can only be used for Hts and Spades.

Likewise:
( 1D ) - 2D! = Spades and either Hts or Cl; whereas Michaels can only be used for Hts and Sp.

[aguahombre]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-December-04, 12:37, said:

My only suggestion is to try Bailey Cuebids ( as opposed to Michaels )

So your answer to the OP's question on when to use the two suited call is what 2-suited call he should use?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

aguahombre, on 2011-December-04, 14:01, said:

So your answer to the OP's question on when to use the two suited call is what 2-suited call he should use?

I thought that was adequately covered by the other posters.

But here are some general follow-ups ( which also can be used for Michaels )

-- Simple Advances are for "pass or correct".
-- Advancer "cues" to show a strong unbalanced hand.
-- Advancer bids 2NT to show a strong balanced hand w/stop(s) in Opener's suit.
-- If Advancer bids the "known" suit ( usually Sp); Overcaller bids his "unknown" suit to show a stronger hand.
-- If Advancer bids the "unknown" suit, Overcaller cues OR bids 2NT to show agreement and the stronger hand.