[nickf]

Hi,
we're arriving in CA for a couple of weeks on Saturday and it's been a while. Perhaps some locals can give we visitors some advice.

I have no objection tipping service staff but have no idea what are the current norms for say:
o taxi drivers
o wait staff
o bellhops

And while I have your attention, can any locals please give some advice for things to do (family of 4, incl 2x teenagers) in LA, SF, SD and the coast road between LA+SF. We have some basic ideas but the guide books rarely take you off the tourist trail. More interested in good food, interesting neighbourhoods, activities a tourist wouldn't really know or think about etc etc.

thanks in advance.

nickf
sydney

[kenberg]

Welcome aliens,

I'm Minnesota born, living on the East Coast and so obviously not your best source of information. But that never actually stops me, so a couple of comments.

When you get to SF, the Berkeley side of the bay is a LOT warmer. Warm enough so I have biked around there in January, and since you mentioned teenagers... No doubt there are rentals, and I enjoyed riding along Grizzly Peak down to Oakland. Depends on tastes, obviously.

A few years back when we were in SF we stopped in City Lights bookstore. Despite spending her youth in 1960s SF, my (carefully watched over while growing up) wife Becky had never been there. See
http://en.wikipedia....ights_Bookstore
Again, depends on taste, but Becky loved it.

I regard the Pacific Coast near SF as extraordinary so my main advice would be to give yourself time to enjoy and explore.

[Phil]

I give a cabbies and waiters 15-25% depending on the size of the bill (smaller--> higher %). Bellhops get about $3 / bag.

Teenagers, eh?

Starting in San Diego:

- Stay away from Tijuana but if you want to get a taste of Mexico, head to Rosarito Beach a few hours south. Puerto Nuevo just south of Rosarito is pretty fun too.
- The SD Zoo isn't that great. Sea World is better but it sounds like that's what you are trying to avoid.
- Have dinner one night at the Gaslamp district - lots of things to do and good restaurants.
- Definitely go to La Jolla - book a hotel at the beach. Very picturesque place and nice places to walk. Some good beaches there too, but its the wrong time of year.

Heading northward to OC:

- San Clemente Pier is a neat place. So is Dana (Point) Harbor. Good places to get out and stretch your legs.
- I'd spend a day at Laguna Beach. The hiking at Crystal Cove is really great with some amazing views, but the parking is expensive, although it also gets you beach access too.
- Go the Beachcomer restaurant adjacent to Crystal Cove.
- My kids are 18/21/23. The 18 year old's favorite place is Balboa Island. Take the ferry over to the Newport Peninsula.
- Orange County has some great mountain biking spots too depending on how adventurous your crew is.
- Have to make the required stop at Disneyland, although California Adventure holds our interest more. My kids prefer Knotts Berry Farm over Disneyland. The rides are a lot better.

(I'm biased obviously!)

LA:

- Your teenagers might like Venice Beach.
- Hollywood is OK too, but..
- One thing I do recommend is Catalina Island. You can leave out of Long Beach or San Pedro. Rent some bikes and ride around Avalon. The boat ride can be choppy this time of year so if any of you get seasick, it might not be a good idea.

I really cannot recommend a lot about LA, except for some restaurants. There are some bad neighborhoods, and some god-awful traffic. The air quality is much better now than 20 years ago. OK, if you really, really want to try some interesting stuff, and don't mind some sketchy neighborhoods and want the local flavor...

- Go to Ocean Star in Monterey Park. Its a killer chinese restaurant.
- Go to Manny's El Tepeyac on Evergreen in Boyle Heights for lunch. It is authentic of a Mexican restaurant and it is hot beyond belief, even though the neighborhood is pretty bad.

Since its winter, maybe the kids would like some snow?

- Big Bear is about 90-120 minutes from LA. My son was there yesterday and he said it was dry, but there's a few storms that might hit over the next few weeks. There are condos and cabins you can rent.

- Palm Springs is two hours east of LA. The aerial tramway takes you to the top of a mountain and there is always snow, but no skiing.

Points north:

- Santa Barbara is nice, and State Street is a great place to shop.

- Not a place for kids, but north of Santa Barbara has some great wineries.

- I'm not that well-versed on Yosemite, sadly, but I hear great things about it.

- I would definitely take Highway 1 up through Big Sur and into Monterey, even though the road is a little treacherous at times. The aquarium is great. Go to Pfeiffer Park in Big Sur - very nice.

- I think Santa Cruz is kind of a dump; maybe others disagree.

I cannot coach you on the Bay Area, but some others can. Definitely need to go to San Francisco and spend a day there.

If you really have 'a few weeks', you might try a side trip to Las Vegas, or the Grand Canyon. Some of the best places in the West for my money are in SW Utah and perhaps Northern Arizona.

Thats enough rambling - would be curious what you've heard and what you are considering.

[Elianna]

nickf, on 2011-December-28, 16:41, said:

Hi,
we're arriving in CA for a couple of weeks on Saturday and it's been a while. Perhaps some locals can give we visitors some advice.

I have no objection tipping service staff but have no idea what are the current norms for say:
o taxi drivers
o wait staff
o bellhops

And while I have your attention, can any locals please give some advice for things to do (family of 4, incl 2x teenagers) in LA, SF, SD and the coast road between LA+SF. We have some basic ideas but the guide books rarely take you off the tourist trail. More interested in good food, interesting neighbourhoods, activities a tourist wouldn't really know or think about etc etc.

thanks in advance.

nickf
sydney

Others have covered the tipping issue, so I'll leave that to them.

Some things that you may want to be aware of driving-wise is that you are allowed to make rights on red-lights (except in downtown areas or where there are posts indicating otherwise), and people will get upset with you if you don't. Also, in LA at least, many streets do not have left turn signals, and common traffic ettiquette is that people pull out to the middle of the street to wait for open space. I have been told that if you get in an accident, you're actually at fault if you do that, so I'm not saying you should do it, just if you're in the left turn lane, and you don't, and people honk at you, that's why. Lastly, I've found that if you are driving normally, and signal, SOMEONE will let you in (not necessarily everyone, but someone) but that only applies in LA, not in the Bay Area. In the Bay Area, they drive like they are playing a video game.

Restaurants in L.A. that I absolutely miss include Sunnin on Westwood Blvd in West LA, and Nyala on Fairfax in Little Ethiopia. Adam wants me to add in Brent's, which is in the Valley, on Parthenia. Sunnin is Lebanese food, and I recommend getting lots of appetizers to share, especially the humus and sanbousek, and if they have the stuffed zuccini special you should get it. Nyala is Ethiopian, and they have recommendations on their menu, which you can trust (but we've never had any of the fish dishes so can't attest to that). You should definitely expect to share food there, it's served communally. Lastly, Brent's is a Jewish Deli, and I love their pastrami sandwich, but it's A LOT of food.

I really enjoyed parking at Santa Monica beach, and walking down the beach to Venice and back.

Adam recommends the car museum on Wilshire on the Miracle Mile.

I also highly recommend the Huntington Library and Gardens in Pasadena. It is gorgeous there, plus they have interesting editions of historic books (like an Ellesmere Chaucer and a Guttenberg Bible) and lots of information about U.S. and California history if you're interested. There also are art museums on the grounds. And the grounds are just extensive and lovely and relaxing. One of my favorite places in LA. While you're in Pasadena, you could go to my favorite Thai restaurant, Saladang. It's on Fair Oaks. My favorite dish there is their green curry with tofu.

I don't really have recommendations for the Bay Area. Lick Observatory is interesting, but I can't really recommend the drive up there to anyone, and I'm not 100% certain it's open in winter.

Adam recommends seeing one of the Redwood Forest parks up here and touring Alcatraz. He also says that the Computer Museum and Intel museum are worth the visit.

I think that Disneyland is much better than California Adventure, but I'm a Disney fan. Honestly, if you're not into Disney, I'd recommend bypassing all amusement parks (as you can find them anywhere) and concentrate on seeing other sides of CA.

Also, Phil gives many options, but no way would I think that you can do even half of that in a few weeks. For example, give yourself at least three days to drive up the coast from LA, because it would not be a fun vacation for you to try to do it in less. Also, some of those are nice if you want to have a relaxing vacation, but not necessarily "things to see in CA", IMO.

[Elianna]

Asking my relatives, they say that some depends on whether you have male or female teenagers.

Some of their recommendations:
-Basketball game (College if you can, Pro if it's easier)
-Seeing College campuses especially Berkely, Stanford, UCLA if your kids are interested in college.
-They think Knott's Berry Farm might be more appealing to teenagers ride-wise, but that it's pretty generic. They agree with me that it's probably best to go to Disneyland or pass up amusement parks in general.
-They reminded me that Abbot Kinney has a lot of nice restaurants near Santa Monica beach.

[Mbodell]

Taxi tipping is often less than restaurants. More like 10% on large charges (round up to the nearest $5).

Restaurants the standard is a bare minimum of 15% of the pre-tax bill and often 20+% of the bill when the service is above average.

Definitely drive Big Sur and the scenic drive between Carmel and Monterrey. Point Lobos is another nice park on the headland just North of Big Sur and just south of Carmel.

In the San Francisco area the headlands North of San Francisco (over the Golden Gate Bridge) are really nice. Muir woods is a well traveled hiking area.

There is a ton of good food in the San Francisco area, and lots of very fine restaraunts in the Napa Valley/Sonoma area (wine country which starts a little over 30 minutes north of San Francisco).

If you go to the Stanford Campus you can go to the top of the Hoover tower which gives a good view of the Bay Area.

The places in San Francisco that most people visit are all very walkable. Starting from 4th and King near the Giant's stadium it is easy to walk to Union Square, Market Street, Ferry Building, China Town, Coit Tower, Pier 39, Ghirardelli Square, Fort Mason, etc. I also second that Alcatraz is worth a visit.

The other thing to note is you will be here in the winter and the Northern California part (which is what folks call the area around SF even though geographically it is more like central California) has a lot of micro climates from the coast and the mountains but it can get quite cold, especially at night, for places on the coast. Although you should be quite used to that as a lot of people describe the Sydney and San Francisco climates as quite similar.

[cherdano]

Fisherman's Wharf (in San Francisco) is terribly touristy, but a really fun thing to do is to rent bikes and bike over the Golden Gate bridge and back. Of course you will have to know whether your teenagers are up for it but it's a gentle ride.

Highway one is indeed beautiful, I guess you knew that already (I only know the part between Monterey and SF though).

If you like coffee there are a lot of great coffee shops in SF. (I am not grading on a curve here, in case anyone still has prejudices against coffee in the US.) The best coffee is served at Blue Bottle, the one I found coolest was Ritual coffee (in the Mission).

[hrothgar]

cherdano, on 2011-December-29, 08:33, said:

Fisherman's Wharf (in San Francisco) is terribly touristy, but a really fun thing to do is to rent bikes and bike over the Golden Gate bridge and back. Of course you will have to know whether your teenagers are up for it but it's a gentle ride.

Highway one is indeed beautiful, I guess you knew that already (I only know the part between Monterey and SF though).

If you like coffee there are a lot of great coffee shops in SF. (I am not grading on a curve here, in case anyone still has prejudices against coffee in the US.) The best coffee is served at Blue Bottle, the one I found coolest was Ritual coffee (in the Mission).

Few quick suggestions:

1. From my perspective, its hard to beat that part of the world for natural beauty... The drive up the coast is gorgeous, however, don't neglect the inland areas. If you have time, try to schedule a couple days in Yosemite. If you can't make it to Yosemite, I'd strongly recommend going to Muir Woods and hiking from there to to the coast.

2. San Diego has some incredible zoos / parks. I'd strongly recommend both the San Diego Zoo and Sea World. The Monteray Aquarium is also a lot of fun.

3. Avoid Los Angeles like the plague

[helene_t]

the exploratorium in SF is possibly the world's best science center.

alcatraz is nice, too.

the children's tech museum in san jose is cool but maybe not for teenagers, depends how childish they are.

or just walking around in sf and look do some art galleries

I gave a taxi driver a £50 bill when the fare was $20, when I asked for the change he said "oh sorry I assumed it was a tip so I just declared it as such on the invoice". I assume that was nonsense but I can appreciate a creative way to screw a stupid tourist. So next time I will tell him how much tip he gets before I handle him the money.

[y66]

In SF, Hayes Valley is a fun neighborhood to hang out in and use as a base if you're staying in the city for a few days.

[blackshoe]

The Highway One trip is gorgeous. I did it years ago, South to North, and I remember worrying that I was going to run out of gas before I got to Big Sur, which was the first gas station I found after, I think, Santa Barbara or so. Gas was expensive there, too. So make sure you have a full tank!

[JLOGIC]

helene_t, on 2011-December-29, 09:44, said:

I gave a taxi driver a £50 bill when the fare was $20, when I asked for the change he said "oh sorry I assumed it was a tip so I just declared it as such on the invoice". I assume that was nonsense but I can appreciate a creative way to screw a stupid tourist. So next time I will tell him how much tip he gets before I handle him the money.

Hand him your bill and tell him how much change you want simultaneously. Standard.

10 % round up is pretty standard for cabs in NYC, but in NYC people take cabs all the time and the cabbies have constnt work, I tend to tip more when I'm in a small cab market because I feel bad for them.

20 % pretty standard for restaurants, $2/bag is what I give the bellman but I have no idea what is standard.

[Elianna]

If you must stop for fast food, and want a burger type place, I recommend In 'n Out over places like McDonald's and Burger King. Less of a choice on the menu, though.

[S2000magic]

If you're in Los Angeles on a weekend and want a unique brunch experience, I'd suggest that you go to The Magic Castle in Hollywood: it's a magician's club, and for the price of brunch you can see shows in each of the three theaters (the Close-Up Gallery, the Palace of Mystery, and the Parlour of Prestidigitation).

The downside: you need to know a member to be allowed in.

The upside: I'm a member.

[JLOGIC]

Elianna, on 2011-December-29, 15:59, said:

If you must stop for fast food, and want a burger type place, I recommend In 'n Out over places like McDonald's and Burger King. Less of a choice on the menu, though.

If you include the secret menu then there are way more choices t in and out. I agree with you that it is way higher quality than mcdonalds/burger king/wendys etc.

[blackshoe]

Unfortunately, there seem to be no cheeburger, cheeburger joints in California. Closest seems to be in Vegas.

[Elianna]

hrothgar, on 2011-December-29, 09:29, said:

Avoid Los Angeles like the plague

I agree that there are parts of Los Angeles that are overhyped, but I think that this is a bit of an overbid.

[Gerben42]

Quote

10 % round up is pretty standard for cabs in NYC, but in NYC people take cabs all the time and the cabbies have constnt work, I tend to tip more when I'm in a small cab market because I feel bad for them.

I am rather surprised by this... the subway system is very dense in NYC I seem to miss the point for taking a taxi unless you have like more than one suit case, in which case you have already paid for extra luggage on the flight and you apparently can afford it

Anyway, in LA the subway wasn't THAT useful since it doesn't connect directly to the airport. I guess that must be to discourage using it.

[JLOGIC]

Gerben42, on 2011-December-30, 12:33, said:

I am rather surprised by this... the subway system is very dense in NYC I seem to miss the point for taking a taxi unless you have like more than one suit case, in which case you have already paid for extra luggage on the flight and you apparently can afford it

Anyway, in LA the subway wasn't THAT useful since it doesn't connect directly to the airport. I guess that must be to discourage using it.

There are millions of people in manhattan alone, obv a ton of people are using subways but a ton of them are also using cabs. On top of that NYC limits the number of yellow cabs that are sanctioned, so there is a lot of demand per cab. When it is raining badly, it is almost impossible to get a cab sometimes (because people don't want to walk to the subway stops). Using a cab is sometimes easier than using the subway for getting cross town (most stations go up and downtown, and some people don't know how or don't want to transfer. It was standard for me to just take 1 subway up or down and then walk cross town 5 blocks or w/e when this was an option, but some people don't like walking). Sometimes you are drunk and just want to take a cab. Sometimes you are like a 10 dollar cab ride form somewhere, and you have 2 friends with you. In that case it is completely standard to take a cab as it's much more convenient, and the price difference is negligible.

I mean, this is a long way to say that cabs are more convenient and are not that expensive, relative to the amount of money in manhattan and with tons of people there, it's not that hard to see why the cabbies are always in business

[Elianna]

Gerben42, on 2011-December-30, 12:33, said:

I am rather surprised by this... the subway system is very dense in NYC I seem to miss the point for taking a taxi unless you have like more than one suit case, in which case you have already paid for extra luggage on the flight and you apparently can afford it

Anyway, in LA the subway wasn't THAT useful since it doesn't connect directly to the airport. I guess that must be to discourage using it.

There are buses that connect the airport to the green line. Or is it the blue line? I'm pretty sure the green one, to downtown.

But I understand that the buses can be hard to navigate. I don't really recommend it unless you are staying in certain areas, and take these special "LAX Flyaway" buses.