Help
Page 1 of 1
What bid for slam here?
#1
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 288
- Joined: 2007-August-07
Posted 2012-January-19, 08:33
Hand last night had me stuck - playing on BBO with a (sensible) pickup partner. Is there an obvious bid over partner's helpful preempt?
#2
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 694
- Joined: 2010-October-21
- Gender:Male
- Location:Ann Arbor, MI
- Interests:Bridge, juggling, disc sports, Jane Austen, writing, cosmology, and Mexican food
Posted 2012-January-19, 09:08
Pass. I guess if you are swinging for the fences, 6C and a prayer for a pointed-suit lead has a little appeal...but no thanks.
Revised Bridge Personality: 44 43 33 44
Dianne, I'm holding in my hand a small box of chocolate bunnies... --Agent Dale Cooper
Dianne, I'm holding in my hand a small box of chocolate bunnies... --Agent Dale Cooper
#3
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 342
- Joined: 2009-April-01
- Gender:Male
- Location:Chicago Suburbs
Posted 2012-January-19, 09:08
Pass?
I see two quick ♥ losers...
of course, with a solid 9 card ♣ suit, and the ♥A, 5♣'s is not the best description of your partner's hand, since, THIS is a possible result.
I see two quick ♥ losers...
of course, with a solid 9 card ♣ suit, and the ♥A, 5♣'s is not the best description of your partner's hand, since, THIS is a possible result.
Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. George Carlin
#4
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,688
- Joined: 2006-May-18
- Gender:Not Telling
Posted 2012-January-19, 09:29
Slam could easily be good (3/-/432/KQJT98543 or 3/2/432/AKQJT985) but we have no way of finding out so it seems better to pass.
(-: Zel :-)
#5
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 14,143
- Joined: 2009-July-13
- Location:England
Posted 2012-January-19, 09:35
What do we need from partner for a slam ? Either a one loser 8+ card suit and the A♥, or a solid 8+ card suit and second round control.
We also need the opening leader to find the heart lead much but not all of the time (x, KQx, x, KQJ10xxxx is just dead, the same with ♥Axx is cold, the same with a stiff Q rather than small requires a heart lead).
I'd suggest given that partner has bid this in second seat, it's odds on and bid 6, I'd be more reticent opposite a first seat 5♣.
Edit: I have a natural 4♣ opener available, if I didn't I might also be more circumspect.
We also need the opening leader to find the heart lead much but not all of the time (x, KQx, x, KQJ10xxxx is just dead, the same with ♥Axx is cold, the same with a stiff Q rather than small requires a heart lead).
I'd suggest given that partner has bid this in second seat, it's odds on and bid 6, I'd be more reticent opposite a first seat 5♣.
Edit: I have a natural 4♣ opener available, if I didn't I might also be more circumspect.
#6
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 7,786
- Joined: 2004-September-05
- Gender:Male
- Location:Galloway NJ USA
-
Interests:Bridge, Poker, participatory and spectator sports.
Occupation - Tax Attorney in Atlantic City, NJ.
Posted 2012-January-19, 09:50
Even in second seat partner can have a 5♣ bid with two quick heart losers. Or, in an extreme case, two inescapable losers.
As an example of the extreme case:
----
x
----
KQJT98765432
Or, a truly disgusting example opposite responder's hand:
----
Ax
----
QJT98765432
These revolting possibilities aside, I think that bidding slam is anti-percentage. Finding partner with the right hand for slam is against the odds (although certainly possible).
As an example of the extreme case:
----
x
----
KQJT98765432
Or, a truly disgusting example opposite responder's hand:
----
Ax
----
QJT98765432
These revolting possibilities aside, I think that bidding slam is anti-percentage. Finding partner with the right hand for slam is against the odds (although certainly possible).
#7
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 15,469
- Joined: 2003-February-13
- Gender:Male
- Location:Natick, MA
-
Interests:Travel
Cooking
Brewing
Hiking
Posted 2012-January-19, 10:05
Personally, I don't think that 6♣ is out of the question.
Partner has made a second seat preempt at the five level at equal vulnerability.
I have first round control in two suits, four tricks for partner, and two card trump support...
I would dearly love to be playing methods where I could show both constructive and less constructive five level preempts.
I'm not. Partner could have a wide range of hands, and 5♣ = ain't that great a score at match points....
Yes, I have a suit wide open, but there's no guarantee that the opponents will find the right lead
The odds that the opponent leader has AK in hearts aren't that great.
I'm not sure that leading an unsupported Ace is that attractive on an auction like 5C - 6C
Partner has made a second seat preempt at the five level at equal vulnerability.
I have first round control in two suits, four tricks for partner, and two card trump support...
I would dearly love to be playing methods where I could show both constructive and less constructive five level preempts.
I'm not. Partner could have a wide range of hands, and 5♣ = ain't that great a score at match points....
Yes, I have a suit wide open, but there's no guarantee that the opponents will find the right lead
The odds that the opponent leader has AK in hearts aren't that great.
I'm not sure that leading an unsupported Ace is that attractive on an auction like 5C - 6C
Alderaan delenda est
#8
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 3,568
- Joined: 2006-June-28
- Gender:Male
- Location:Barrington IL USA
- Interests:Backgammon, Bridge, Hockey
Posted 2012-January-19, 10:41
My experience with "sensible" pickups is that if they open 5♣ and I hold this good of a hand and bid 6♣ it will be a BIG favorite to make and PD will often take all 13 tricks perhaps if the opps don't make the best lead.
Sitting opposite myself, I'd also bid 6♣ and expect it to be a fav to make as well as my 5♣ 2nd seat opening is going to have 8 sure tricks with tons of trump and likely 8+ or even 9 tricks.
The opps can easily not find the setting lead here if there is one.
.. neilkaz ..
Sitting opposite myself, I'd also bid 6♣ and expect it to be a fav to make as well as my 5♣ 2nd seat opening is going to have 8 sure tricks with tons of trump and likely 8+ or even 9 tricks.
The opps can easily not find the setting lead here if there is one.
.. neilkaz ..
#9
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 12,029
- Joined: 2009-February-21
- Gender:Male
- Location:St. George, UT
Posted 2012-January-19, 10:51
Any bid obviously commits to slam, and we aren't really looking for a grand. So, the only bid for slam if you choose to do so is 6C. It seems the issue is not "what to bid" (title of thread), but rather whether to bid. I vote no.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#10
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 645
- Joined: 2010-December-02
Posted 2012-January-19, 11:06
I am not bidding 6 unless I am looking for a big swing. If RHO has ♥A he will lead it and we are almost surely down.(Partner couldnt open 3N right?) If he doesnt lead ♥ we could still lose 2♣. I dont agree that partner's preempt should be that solid in second seat. I mean with - Qxxx x KJxxxxxx I cant imagine not opening 5♣, (mby unless we are r/w, but even then I will surely consider it).
#11
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 7,786
- Joined: 2004-September-05
- Gender:Male
- Location:Galloway NJ USA
-
Interests:Bridge, Poker, participatory and spectator sports.
Occupation - Tax Attorney in Atlantic City, NJ.
Posted 2012-January-19, 11:52
the_clown, on 2012-January-19, 11:06, said:
I am not bidding 6 unless I am looking for a big swing. If RHO has ♥A he will lead it and we are almost surely down.(Partner couldnt open 3N right?) If he doesnt lead ♥ we could still lose 2♣. I dont agree that partner's preempt should be that solid in second seat. I mean with - Qxxx x KJxxxxxx I cant imagine not opening 5♣, (mby unless we are r/w, but even then I will surely consider it).
Wow. Really? 5♣ on that hand? I can imagine opening 4♣, but you are not giving your opps much of a choice except double, and I don't know if you really want to play 5♣x on those cards.
Page 1 of 1