[dwar0123]

Imps, 2/1

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I felt 2♥ wasn't forcing

South felt I was to weak to open, which doesn't really matter from my perspective because if I am right I am still passing 2♥ with an additional jack. Regardless, if 2♥ is forcing I need to change my understanding.

[BunnyGo]

dwar0123, on 2012-January-21, 04:50, said:

Imps, 2/1

---

I felt 2♥ wasn't forcing

South felt I was to weak to open, which doesn't really matter from my perspective because if I am right I am still passing 2♥ with an additional jack. Regardless, if 2♥ is forcing I need to change my understanding.

1) In any of my partnerships (including all my pickup partnerships) you have enough to open.

2) 2♥ is forcing in all of these partnerships as well.

There are different agreements that people have where your hand would not be enough, or 2♥ would not be forcing, but in general a new suit by an unpassed responder is always forcing--he doesn't have an obvious other way to describe shape and strength while preserving bidding room.

Some people play that 2♥ here is even game forcing, but for that you need other specific agreements. These 5♠ 4♥ hands are tricky to respond to 1 minor. Some people play that:

1m-2♥ = 5+S 4+H and constructive values

1m-2♠ = 5+S 4+H and invitational values

1m-1♠; Blah-2♥ = 5+S 4+H and GF values.

[Fluffy]

We had a thread like this about 2 years ago, and the consensous was clear, 2♥ is forcing.

New suits by responder are forcing unless:

-Specifically agreed otherwise
-After 1NT rebid

You can go in depth and explain why this should not be a specific one (you need a forcing cheap bid for when you are strong!). But the real thing is: if you didn´t specifically agreed anything, it is forcing. And every pickup expert partnership that creates for a casual play will play it as forcing.

[mcphee]

Looking at the hand diagram I do not see the S hand passing first. Not sure why you are afraid to have bid again, 3N could be just around the corner. Just bid again, passing is not your decision to make.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

2H should be forcing.... The only question is it natural or artificial ?

If you play " cheapest " new suit forcing over a rebid of a minor, it "could be artificial" .

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AK, A .... is not too weak to open.

[aguahombre]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-January-21, 07:47, said:

2H should be forcing.... The only question is it natural or artificial ?

If you play " cheapest " new suit forcing over a rebid of a minor, it "could be artificial" .

And a good question it is. Again, I won't presume to declare whether it IS natural; only what we choose (all forcing, of course):

1C-1M
2C-2D....artificial

1D-1S
2D-2H....natural (because of the space consumed by a raise)

1D-1H
2D-2S....articial

The 2nd sequence (OP), is more likely to find 4-card support for responder's rebid.

[EricK]

I'm not sure there is really any blame to hand out here. You thought 2♥ was NF and so "correctly" passed with your minimum; partner thought 2♥ was natural and forcing so made the obvious bid. If either of you suspected that there might be a misunderstanding, different bids would have been chosen.

Although it is true that most pairs would play 2♥ as forcing, I feel that 3NT by South is more practical than 2♥. Yes you might miss a 4-4 ♥ fit, but equally, you don't pinpoint the ♣ weakness (and you avoid the problem of partner potentially misunderstanding your bid!). I accept that many others might not share this view.

[neilkaz]

It is very standard that PD's 2♥ is forcing, PD is way off with his comment about opening this. I don't want to play with PD's who don't open this hand.

As Eric states, a 3NT bid from PD would be a good practical shot as he'd love a ♥ lead and a 4-4 fit isn't all that likely.

[aguahombre]

3NT might be chosen with that hand by a lot of players, but I don't see it as "practical" to eschew possible 8-card fits in both majors (or either major) with a suit-oriented hand.

If we accidentally got to 4H on this one, I would be delighted. 3NT is a bit shakey and ten tricks in hearts seem quite easy.

[ahydra]

Agree with everyone else. 1D opening is fine, 2H is 100% forcing. You would bid 2S if you had 3 - but here just rebid your diamonds. 3NT looks impossible though (on a club lead)

ahydra

[BunnyGo]

ahydra, on 2012-January-22, 08:18, said:

Agree with everyone else. 1D opening is fine, 2H is 100% forcing. You would bid 2S if you had 3 - but here just rebid your diamonds. 3NT looks impossible though (on a club lead)

ahydra

I'd consider bidding 3♥ as well as 3♦