[mgoetze]

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[WellSpyder]

2♣??

[dkham]

I think 2♣ here shows 12-17.

Assuming your 1NT is 15-17, I'm guessing I didn't open 1NT as the hand is too unbalanced. But if I didn't open 1NT just because the hand is too strong, maybe I should bid 2NT now. If I'm going to overbid though I prefer 3♣.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

2C .... you are a tad shy for either a GF, SJS of 3C ... or a balanced 2NT-jump ( EDIT: not to mention the lack of a stop in the unbid Major ) .

This post has been edited by TWO4BRIDGE: 2012-May-04, 09:36

[jillybean]

As you didn't want to open this 1n, you have to bid 2♣ now.

[bluecalm]

2C.
One good treatment which Italians play is for it to be "almost forcing" which means you only pass with crap (5-7) and both 2D and 3C (and even 3D to extent) are just bids to keep the ball rolling while 2H is invite+ relay after which 2S is any minimum and others are GF.

This is a bit complicated and surely not standard but this sequence is big pain in the ass in purely standard methods.

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2012-May-03, 09:45, said:

As you didn't want to open this 1n, you have to bid 2♣ now.

nor should you. It's too strong for 1n and too shapely...there are 54 hands one will open 1N...say 2=4=5=2 or 2=2=4=5 in range, but not with a hand that clearly values at more than 17 for notrump purposes.

Over 1♥, either 2♣ or 2n is acceptable, but over 1♠, there is only 2♣. Anyone who jumpshifts doesn't understand the game, imo.

[FrancesHinden]

What game are you going to miss if you bid 2C and partner passes? None that I can think of, hence 2C is right.

[han]

It seems to me that you could miss all of 3NT, 4S or 5C on a bad day, hence, your argument is wrong.

[Flem72]

Playing a SNT, I like this seq to be forcing (3C = inv+ spl; 2D as weak bailout); playing a WNT, I like this seq to be forcing (K-Sish; 2D = weak bailout). And WTP? Partner knows I can have this much even if we're playing SA. Doesn't s/he?

[mikeh]

han, on 2012-May-04, 05:31, said:

It seems to me that you could miss all of 3NT, 4S or 5C on a bad day, hence, your argument is wrong.

I agree that the argumet was wrong...we will (tho rarely, imo) miss some games by 2♣. But do you agree with the result, while disagreeing with the argument?

[broze]

mikeh, on 2012-May-03, 21:11, said:

Over 1♥, either 2♣ or 2n is acceptable, but over 1♠, there is only 2♣.

Could you explain this one to me. I'm missing something.

[mikeh]

broze, on 2012-May-04, 09:10, said:

Could you explain this one to me. I'm missing something.

If partner had responded 1♥, the suit we don't stop, then I'd take no exception to opener bidding 2N. The hand definitely values above 1N, and we would do it automatically with 3=2=5=3 shape...Axx xx AKQxx KJx is too much for my 15-17 1N range.

I would also understand 2♣ (tho I prefer 2N). However, with xx in hearts, I have no interest in or liking for bidding 2N over 1♠. Since 3♣ is, imo, a gross overbid (I would hate doing it with Ax xx AKQxx AJxx, but would because I hate the alternatives even more), we are left with 2♣, hoping that partner can bid again...tho if he bids 2♦, I'm reluctantly done.

[gnasher]

han, on 2012-May-04, 05:31, said:

It seems to me that you could miss all of 3NT, 4S or 5C on a bad day, hence, your argument is wrong.

I can construct a hand where we'd miss 3NT or 4♠: Kxxxx QJ10x x Q10x or xxxxxx Axx x Qxx. But 5♣?

[benlessard]

1D followed by 2C is clear cut for me. Opening 1Nt is 2nd best, I hate opening 1D and rebid 2Nt without the stopper.

Imo you are more likely to go down in 2Nt than to bid 2C and miss a game.

[Fluffy]

Depends a bit on teh frequency partner would pass 1♦. If 1♠ can´t be bid on junk I am more inclined to rebid 2NT, for the typical response structure from the forums I´d say 2♣ is best. The one bid I would never do is 3♣, but 1NT opening as well as 2♣ and 2NT rebid all seem close.

[aguahombre]

mikeh, on 2012-May-04, 09:18, said:

.... we are left with 2♣, hoping that partner can bid again...tho if he bids 2♦, I'm reluctantly done.

Do you have to be done? 2H, now, would seem to be the appropriate noise. With extras like this and 1-3 in the majors we could try 2NT; with extras like these and 3-1 in majors 2S would happen. With the failure to open NT (correct), and the inability to rebid 2NT...this hand is the only one remaining which would bid 2H now.

For clarification:
1D-1S
2C-2D (then, rather than reluctantly passing)
2H.....is the situation I am talking about

[Phil]

han, on 2012-May-04, 05:31, said:

It seems to me that you could miss all of 3NT, 4S or 5C on a bad day, hence, your argument is wrong.

It also seems that you will frequently go down in game on a completely normal day when partner is about to pass 2♣.

[gnasher]

aguahombre, on 2012-May-05, 14:07, said:

Do you have to be done? 2H, now, would seem to be the appropriate noise. With extras like this and 1-3 in the majors we could try 2NT; with extras like these and 3-1 in majors 2S would happen. With the failure to open NT (correct), and the inability to rebid 2NT...this hand is the only one remaining which would bid 2H now.

For clarification:
1D-1S
2C-2D (then, rather than reluctantly passing)
2H.....is the situation I am talking about

Yes, passing 2♦ does seem a rather extreme position. If I had to choose between that and a game-force, I'd choose the game-force, but luckily we don't have to choose either.

[Zelandakh]

I am quite impressed that this thread, which could easily have been posted as a unanimous poll, has managed to reach 20 posts. Perhaps I should ask what to open playing SAYC with KJxx/AJx/KJx/KJx and see if it generates equally as much interest!