[bd71]

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Matchpoints. E/W are experienced.

Don't think it's relevant but South DID use the stop card but picked it up right after the 2H bid. West then made the immediate 3C bid (no more than one second pause).

I sat North. Several questions:

1. Should I have reserved my rights by asking whether all agreed that West did NOT pause after the pre-empt? (I did not do this.)

2. From a laws perspective, is this a UI situation identical to what arises after a long pause? That is, does the immediate bid mean we can challenge/appeal any actions by East if we think there are logical alternatives for East and that we might have been harmed?

3. Had I called you as the director, how would you have ruled? Are there logical alternatives for East over 4H or 4S?

EDITED to say "East" instead of "West" in question 3...thanks paulg.

[paulg]

• Preferable.
• Yes.
• You mean East rather than West. I would probably tend to ask East questions but he seems to utterly failed to use the UI from the overcall. Indeed if I thought partner was stronger I would certainly have tried for the grand slam. Table result stands.

[blackshoe]

South's picking up the stop card immediately after he made his call is exactly what he is supposed to do. The timing of that does not relieve West of his obligation to pause ten seconds while acting as if he is thinking about his call, even though 3♣ was chosen (in his mind) instantly. The "insta-bid" does give his partner UI. Whether East has taken advantage of it I'm not as sure as paul. It seems to me the UI is that West has a good hand, and that suggests that East do something other than pass over 4♥. It may be that pass is not an LA - but is 4♠? If it is, and if in EW's methods X is suggested over 4♠ then perhaps East should ethically bid 4♠. If he does so, will West go to six? If West does go to six, will East try seven? Lots of questions for EW and their peers.

I do agree with Paul's answers to the first two questions.

[TylerE]

I would tend to side with East getting to do whatever he wants here, his hand is so powerful. Given what seems to be prevailing American style for bidding over a weak 2, it's almost a slam forcing hand.

If anything, I'd think an especially slow 3♣ (which I guess should hint at weakness) would tend to suggest East take a non-normal action.

[barmar]

I don't see an LA for East. He'd probably bid 4♠ without the ♦KQ or without the ♣K, this hand is much better than either of those (the only wasted card is the ♥Q).

[mycroft]

The TD should want to ask what the requirements for a direct overcall of a preempt are to E/W.

If you ask my partners, they'd be looking for the grand - I'd overcall, but it would be a minimum that I would be uncomfortable with - I would pass with any less shape. I believe in sound overcalls of preempts - I lose some competitions, but I don't miss many games because partner's worried about my hand, nor do we go overboard very often when partner "hopes" I have a better-than-minimum.

I know people who overcall on random 12-with-shape; for them, this is a more-than minimum. Not sure if East is good enough to push to slam unambiguously opposite those people.

Having said that, please do get acknowledgement of the "unhesitation"/call the TD to protect your side. It may not help, but if they do, even unconsciously, take advantage of "zero think" vs "have-to-think", they won't be doing it the rest of the match, at least.

[Vampyr]

blackshoe, on 2012-October-17, 11:51, said:

South's picking up the stop card immediately after he made his call is exactly what he is supposed to do. The timing of that does not relieve West of his obligation to pause ten seconds while acting as if he is thinking about his call,

It's a pity that that is the regulation, since if the player does have something to think about, he should be able to concentrate on that rather than trying to estimate ten seconds.

Last night I slapped a player's pass card out of his hand with the stop card I was still holding out. Wish I could do it to everyone.

[barmar]

mycroft, on 2012-October-17, 17:04, said:

Having said that, please do get acknowledgement of the "unhesitation"/call the TD to protect your side. It may not help, but if they do, even unconsciously, take advantage of "zero think" vs "have-to-think", they won't be doing it the rest of the match, at least.

Or if East is highly ethical, bringing it to his attention should ensure that he bends over backward to avoid taking advantage. Otherwise, even though he's normally ethical, he might not even realize that the tempo is influencing him.

[bd71]

barmar, on 2012-October-17, 18:07, said:

Or if East is highly ethical, bringing it to his attention should ensure that he bends over backward to avoid taking advantage. Otherwise, even though he's normally ethical, he might not even realize that the tempo is influencing him.

Wait. Are you saying I should get agreement to the lack of pause immediately after it happens? I thought it would be normal to do this at the end of the auction.

[blackshoe]

bd71, on 2012-October-17, 18:39, said:

Wait. Are you saying I should get agreement to the lack of pause immediately after it happens? I thought it would be normal to do this at the end of the auction.

Quote

Law 16B2: When a player considers that an opponent has made such [unauthorized] information available and that damage could well result, he may announce, unless prohibited by the Regulating Authority (which may require that the Director be called), that he reserves the right to summon the Director later. The opponents should summon the Director immediately if they dispute the fact that unauthorized information might have been conveyed.

[Vampyr]

bd71, on 2012-October-17, 18:39, said:

Wait. Are you saying I should get agreement to the lack of pause immediately after it happens? I thought it would be normal to do this at the end of the auction.

Bad idea to wait until the end of the auction. People often forget; or if they didn't notice it at the time, they will best be able to cast their mind back immediately after.

[barmar]

Exactly. The sooner, the better.

Also, it's better to get agreement about the BIT independently of considering whether the UI caused damage. Both sides will be less biased.

[paulg]

Vampyr, on 2012-October-17, 18:05, said:

Last night I slapped a player's pass card out of his hand with the stop card I was still holding out. Wish I could do it to everyone.

I think there is far too little slapping in the game, however I'm surprised you found a director who was also in favour of it. They do seem to be a curmudgeonly lot.

[Vampyr]

paulg, on 2012-October-18, 03:08, said:

I think there is far too little slapping in the game, however I'm surprised you found a director who was also in favour of it.

My opponent just laughed and picked his pass card up off the floor.

[jnichols]

Note: The ACBL's regulation on removing the stop card are different from some other jurisdictions.

But the requirement to wait 10 seconds is still there.

[Vampyr]

jnichols, on 2012-October-23, 13:17, said:

Note: The ACBL's regulation on removing the stop card are different from some other jurisdictions.

But the requirement to wait 10 seconds is still there.

Yes, it is poor.