[Phil]

♠Kx ♥xx ♦K9xxx ♣Axxx

1♠ - 1N
3♣ - 4♣
4♦ -

Your call, and do you agree with 4♣

[trevahound]

This is not what you asked, but I really like playing waiting bids over jump shifts. This gives definition to all responder's non-waiting bids, and in most cases provides opener maximum room to complete (or at least further) their description.


What now? 4♠.

[stevenagy]

 Phil, on 2012-October-19, 16:11, said:

♠Kx ♥xx ♦K9xxx ♣Axxx

1♠ - 1N
3♣ - 4♣
4♦ -

Assuming 4♦ is a cue showing first or second round controls, 4♠ sounds like the information my partner needs.

Quote

Your call, and do you agree with 4!c

This is okay by me if 3♣ was natural showing 4+♣, 5+♠ and 18+HCPs. I don't have any fancy gadgets, here. NT might be a better scoring strain, but I'll be crossing my fingers about a heart stop. Let partner decide once you've shown your club support and spade control.

[nigel_k]

I would have bid 3♠ last time, planning to continue with 4♣ over partner's 3NT.

I will bid 4♠ now. Diamonds could easily be a better trump suit if partner is 5134 or even 5044 with bad clubs, but he could also have AQJxx xx AQ KQJx and anything beyond 5♣ is too much. There is still a chance for either us or partner to bid 5NT choice of slam later.

[Phil]

 trevahound, on 2012-October-19, 16:19, said:

This is not what you asked, but I really like playing waiting bids over jump shifts. This gives definition to all responder's non-waiting bids, and in most cases provides opener maximum room to complete (or at least further) their description.


What now? 4♠.

Sometimes when partner makes a jump shift after 1N, there's really nothing more important for him to say besides "I have spades and clubs and a good hand".

We, on the other hand, have some extras and a few big cards. Don't we owe partner more than a 'waiting bid' in these auctions?

Also, aren't you (and others) concerned 4♠ might be passed?

[kenrexford]

5D.

[Phil]

 kenrexford, on 2012-October-19, 23:13, said:

5D.

Not concerned we are off a heart control?

[kenrexford]

 Phil, on 2012-October-20, 08:35, said:

Not concerned we are off a heart control?

That is why I bid 5D and not 4H or something. else.

[fromageGB]

Not keen on that 3♣ bid unless it describes a specific hand such as a 15/16 5xx5. Assuming it is a strong hand with a club suit, I would say 4♣ is good. Stronger than 5♣. If 4♦ was not ace asking, but a cue bid, then 4♠ is now good. It cannot be passed, as we have agreed clubs. Having made that move, I will pass 5♣ but otherwise cooperate.

[barmar]

 fromageGB, on 2012-October-20, 10:11, said:

Not keen on that 3♣ bid unless it describes a specific hand such as a 15/16 5xx5.

What other forcing bids can opener make other than a jump shift?

[Zelandakh]

I think 4♣ is a hand that wants to play in clubs and 4♠ would therefore be unambiguously forcing. I prefer both rebids of 3♦ (grope) and 3♠ here, usually to be followed by 4♣ next time around. After all, Opener might only have 2 clubs! For me, the difference between a direct 4♣ and a grope followed by 4♣ is not so much strength as the level of club support. Change a diamond to a club and I would be happy starting with a 4♣ rebid and following this with a 4♠ cue.

[fromageGB]

 barmar, on 2012-October-21, 23:17, said:

What other forcing bids can opener make other than a jump shift?

Comparing degrees of artificiality, I think 3♣ that shows a strong hand but can be a doubleton (Zel) is no simpler than 2♣ that shows an undefined strong hand. So my preference is for 2♣ as it gives double the room to explore fits and game suitability. That being the case, jumps should show specific shapes/strengths that can then be removed from the alternatives covered by the general purpose 2♣, so its subsequent descriptions are more precise.

[mich-b]

 Phil, on 2012-October-19, 20:54, said:

Also, aren't you (and others) concerned 4♠ might be passed?

We have the agreement , that after a control cuebid has been made (4♦ in this case) , all "in doubt" bids (suits other than the agreed trumps , even if bid by either partner before) are cuebids.

It would be different if opener rebid 4♠ after 4♣. Since no control cuebids have been made yet , we would play 4♠ here as natural and suggestion to play.

Pairs can have other agreements of course , but I feel it is important to have a general agreement , and not judge each case (of this type) by its own merits , which too often leads to misunderstandings.

[karlson]

I would bid 3♠ over 3♣ (3♦ also seems reasonable). I don't think 4♠ is passable now, how can we have a hand that wants to play 4♠ when partner didn't bid it and we didn't bid 3♠ last time?

[mr1303]

Yes, I also bid 4S. If partner passes it, I'm actually quite happy, since this suggests partner doesn't have a heart control.

[PhilKing]

 karlson, on 2012-October-22, 06:00, said:

I would bid 3♠ over 3♣ (3♦ also seems reasonable). I don't think 4♠ is passable now, how can we have a hand that wants to play 4♠ when partner didn't bid it and we didn't bid 3♠ last time?

Depends if you would bid 3♣ on ♠AQJxx ♥xx ♦KQ ♣AQJx.

Partner can have: ♠Kx ♥Qxx ♦xxx ♣Kxxxx

4NT is available as a spade cue, and it's what I bid on the hand in the OP.

[Codo]

4 ♠ is avaiable as a spade cue bid, so I will choose it- obvbiously neither 4 ♣ nor 4 ♦ had been a kind of minorwood.

I had choosen 4 ♣ too, SI with clubs. But I live in a (small) world, where 3 ♣ really promises 4+ clubs.

[jogs]

Don't like 4♣. Like 3♦ as a advanced cue. Usually shows four-card support of the second suit. Occasionally it is support(3-card limit raise) of the first suit. 3♦ shows ace or king and an ace in one of partner's suits. If 3♣ is real clubs, opener should bid slam in clubs. Advancer can always correct the lower suit to the higher suit.

[Phil]

 PhilKing, on 2012-October-22, 06:21, said:

4NT is available as a spade cue, and it's what I bid on the hand in the OP.

With my regular partner, 4♦ is RKC, but if partner bid 4♥ instead, 4N would definitely be forward going in clubs, implying a spade control.

[PhilKing]

 Phil, on 2012-October-22, 10:30, said:

With my regular partner, 4♦ is RKC, but if partner bid 4♥ instead, 4N would definitely be forward going in clubs, implying a spade control.

Yep, 4♦ same for me. But over a red cue, everyone apart from us can bid 4♠ with a control.