[VixTD]

I was called to a table yesterday where I saw the following bidding cards on the table:

...South.....West......North
.....1♠.....stop card....1NT

I think it's clear that North thought West had passed. I asked if anyone had done anything else, whether West or East had actually bid. I was told that West had started to bid, and had removed bidding cards from the box, but that no one had seen what the bid was. I established to all players' agreement that this had happened before North bid 1NT. (West subsequently returned the cards to the box to await the TD's ruling.)

Do you rule that this is a call out of rotation, or an insufficient bid?

[gordontd]

VixTD, on 2012-November-12, 07:53, said:

I was called to a table yesterday where I saw the following bidding cards on the table:

...South.....West......North
.....1♠.....stop card....1NT

I think it's clear that North thought West had passed. I asked if anyone had done anything else, whether West or East had actually bid. I was told that West had started to bid, and had removed bidding cards from the box, but that no one had seen what the bid was. I established to all players' agreement that this had happened before North bid 1NT. (West subsequently returned the cards to the box to await the TD's ruling.)

Do you rule that this is a call out of rotation, or an insufficient bid?

The regulations say that a call is made when the bidding cards have been taken out of the box with intent. From your description that had happened before the 1NT bid was made.

[bluejak]

ie 1NT was insufficient.

[pran]

VixTD, on 2012-November-12, 07:53, said:

I was called to a table yesterday where I saw the following bidding cards on the table:

...South.....West......North
.....1♠.....stop card....1NT

I think it's clear that North thought West had passed. I asked if anyone had done anything else, whether West or East had actually bid. I was told that West had started to bid, and had removed bidding cards from the box, but that no one had seen what the bid was. I established to all players' agreement that this had happened before North bid 1NT. (West subsequently returned the cards to the box to await the TD's ruling.)

Do you rule that this is a call out of rotation, or an insufficient bid?

Mistaking STOP for a PASS?

[ahydra]

pran, on 2012-November-12, 10:31, said:

Mistaking STOP for a PASS?

If N is being a bit careless (or maybe he's red-green colourblind?), he will no doubt spot that West pulled out something from the lower half of the bidding box, perhaps saw it incorrectly, and therefore concluded West had passed. Not implausible at all - just careless.

ahydra

[campboy]

It seems more likely that North thought West had doubled. Either way, West has bid and depending on what that bid is either it or 1NT is insufficient.

[blackshoe]

Agree with Fair Witness Campboy.

[VixTD]

I ruled it an insufficient bid, for the reason Gordon gives.

I think this shows the benefit of asking whether what you can see is really all that has happened. I got into the habit of doing this because I frequently found that a player would call over an insufficient bid, or play to a lead out of turn, and put the cards back before the director got there. In this case I found out that West had actually bid, when the players thought she had not.