[MrAce]

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1- Do you agree with your first pass ?

2-Assuming that you passed whether you like or not, 3♣ shows values due to leben, do you think a direct 3♣ is sufficient ?

3- Assume that you agreed with 3♣ or disagreed but this is when you took the seat, what would you bid now ?

Your pd is me, so some of you probably have a clue about what kind of noob you are playing with IMP pairs

[wank]

yes i would pass to start.

over the double i think i've got too much playing strength for 3c - i'd prefer 4c even though it takes us past 3nt. anyway 3nt is unlikely to be good - we'll most likely need to concede a club trick to run the suit and partner's unlikely to have a double spade stop.

still it's now worked pretty well, i can bid 4s which shows my hand perfectly imo.

[JLOGIC]

Pretty much agree totally with wank, if you are interested in getting to 3N you can at least bid 3S though. The hand is way too good for 3C.

[rsteele]

Agree with pass. I have a max for three clubs but think it the lesser of evils. I now bid 4D!!

[gszes]

playing leb this hand has more than enough values to bid 3n as long as
that shows game going values and no spade stopper. If it does not mean that
then 3c is sufficient since 5c requires extra values from p to have any real
chance of success.

That means if 3c is reasonable and p 2nd x shows extra values we should be
happy enough with our hand to continue with 4s to show plausible slam chances
despite our recent 3c bid. I see no strong reason this hand should bypass 3n
by bidding 4c originally or bidding 3s originally which should be stayman with
no spade stopper.

[nige1]

MrAce, on 2013-July-14, 07:08, said:

1- Do you agree with your first pass ?
2-Assuming that you passed whether you like or not, 3♣ shows values due to leben, do you think a direct 3♣ is sufficient ?
3- Assume that you agreed with 3♣ or disagreed but this is when you took the seat, what would you bid now ?
Your pd is me, so some of you probably have a clue about what kind of noob you are playing with IMP pairs

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Intriguing problems. Thank you Mr Ace. IMO:

• Initially, Pass = 10, 3♣ = 9.
• Over RHO's XX (assuming 2N would be Lebensohl): 3♣ = 10, 3♠ = 6.
• When Partner doubles 3♠ (take-out and extra values): 4♥ = 10, 4♦ = 9, 4♠ = 8, 4♣ = 7, 3N = 6.

[IVAN CY LO]

I would bid 4C if Partner first double is a take out.

Quite obvious that we have a fit in club, and partner may be 4333 flat hand with somehow 12-13HCP strength, LoTT will be 17 and leave a 3MX contract will easily loss a game value.

RHO redouble is in doubt, I think he has around 8-9 HCP with some good cards, such as 2As.

[cherdano]

IVAN CY LO, on 2013-July-14, 22:37, said:

I would bid 4C if Partner first double is a take out.

Quite obvious that we have a fit in club, and partner may be 4333 flat hand with somehow 12-13HCP strength, LoTT will be 17 and leave a 3MX contract will easily loss a game value.

Why would partner make a second double after he already made an overbid with his first double? He is certainly not 4333 flat with 12-13 hcp.

[Zelandakh]

1. Agree with pass.
2. I am ok with a heavy 3♣ playing Leb, although a light 3♠ is fine too. What did the XX mean?
3. Now 4♠ is perfect.

[IVAN CY LO]

cherdano, on 2013-July-15, 02:53, said:

Why would partner make a second double after he already made an overbid with his first double? He is certainly not 4333 flat with 12-13 hcp.

So what do you think about the second double? Strong t/o with extreme fit in club? The RHO redouble is somehow in doubt. This second double only can think of penalty instead of any takeout.

[PhilKing]

IVAN CY LO, on 2013-July-15, 07:03, said:

So what do you think about the second double? Strong t/o with extreme fit in club? The RHO redouble is somehow in doubt. This second double only can think of penalty instead of any takeout.

Second double is defined as a 3NT probe for me.

Without that agreement, it would still be rather shocking to play it as penalties.

[cherdano]

Whatever you define it as, the second double shows extra strength. We are not in a forcing pass situation.

[Fluffy]

I think I would open 3♣ but not sure because we are perhaps too strong fo it.

Bidding 3♣ is borderline again but since we didn't open 3♣ its fair to assume we are too strong for it now, 4♣ seems right.

After a second double its time to show our great hand!, 4♠.

[ggwhiz]

Interesting indeed.

In our style pard may not have clubs at all intending to correct clubs to diamonds as equal level conversion and as long as they have appropriate extra values with say, 4-6 in the red suits. The 2nd double brings this into play.

A 5-card heart suit is very much out of bounds if this is the case so 4♠ should get us on track but I'm passing 5♦.

[HeartA]

IVAN CY LO, on 2013-July-14, 22:37, said:

I would bid 4C if Partner first double is a take out.

Quite obvious that we have a fit in club, and partner may be 4333 flat hand with somehow 12-13HCP strength, LoTT will be 17 and leave a 3MX contract will easily loss a game value.

RHO redouble is in doubt, I think he has around 8-9 HCP with some good cards, such as 2As.

I would say quite impossible partner has 12-13 with 4-3-3-3. If so, I will change a partner. With 12-13 and 4-3-3-3, he is not even qualified for first dbl, not to mention the second dbl.

[IVAN CY LO]

HeartA, on 2013-July-15, 17:29, said:

I would say quite impossible partner has 12-13 with 4-3-3-3. If so, I will change a partner. With 12-13 and 4-3-3-3, he is not even qualified for first dbl, not to mention the second dbl.

It depends on what is the meaning of 2S - 3S!, direct cue-bid of pre-emp.

If cue-bid is strong takeout, I can't see why he needs to double shows second takeout. My agreement with many partners is takeout must provide 3 cards support in unbid suit. Someone suggesting he is 4-6 in 2 red suits. If it is the meaning, why not direct bid a 3D or bid 3S to ask stopper in spade if he holds a solid diamond suit?

[Zelandakh]

IVAN CY LO, on 2013-July-16, 03:20, said:

It depends on what is the meaning of 2S - 3S!, direct cue-bid of pre-emp.

If cue-bid is strong takeout,

I am not sure anyone has played the direct cue bid as a strong takeout in the last 40 years. Even when this was common, it promised first round control (void or singleton ace) so there were plenty of strong takeout hands remaining. it is fine for you to have strange views about bidding but this is the expert forum so you should assume some kind of modern expert standard unless you are specifying otherwise. If not, well, posters are less tolerant of stupid things in this forum than others so be prepared.

[MrAce]

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Here is the full deal, South in OP was actually N , changed it for convenience.

I have no freaking clue why W redoubled.

[dake50]

I have no freaking clue why W redoubled.

*** Isn't this "striped-tail ape double" extended to redouble?
That is he expects any penalty to be less than their slam.

[JLOGIC]

It's just a psyche. A dumb one at that, he is a passed hand and his partner preempted.