[dickiegera]

East opens 1♦

Pass or bid. If you bid 1 Spade or 1 Heart?

And what do you bid if opener now bids 2 Clubs?

---

[blackshoe]

dickiegera, on 2013-August-17, 07:02, said:

East opens 1♦

Pass or bid. If you bid 1 Spade or 1 Heart?

And what do you bid if opener now bids 2 Clubs?

---

Pass, and pass.

[fromageGB]

Given the system description it seems a clear pass to me. The hand is crying out for partner to be playing "unbalanced diamond", when 1♠ is a wonderful reply.

[rogerclee]

I would respond 1S and do not think this is close at all. If opener rebids 2C, obviously bid 2D, we have equal length so let's take a preference back to the opening suit like a normal human being.

[trevahound]

rogerclee, on 2013-August-17, 14:21, said:

I would respond 1S and do not think this is close at all. If opener rebids 2C, obviously bid 2D, we have equal length so let's take a preference back to the opening suit like a normal human being.

What Roger said. WTP?

[ggwhiz]

trevahound, on 2013-August-18, 11:36, said:

What Roger said. WTP?

100%. Pass deserves to find a 4-4-3-2 or 4-3-4-2 opposite not to mention good games opposite 4-1-6-3 shapes with minimum hcp's

[mgoetze]

I imagine 30 years ago people might have thought of this as an interesting problem. Nowadays, I fully agree with

trevahound, on 2013-August-18, 11:36, said:

What Roger said. WTP?

[gszes]

treatment for a 1m opening is sort of odd because of the huge range p may have
for their 1m opening (minors are very difficult to show after a 2c opening). It is not
shocking for p to have 22 hcp and unbalanced yet open 1m because the alternatives
are all worse.

While we don't want to respond with any old dreck surely an ace or 4/5 reasonably
placed hcp are worth a raggedy 6 count many think of as a minimum. Surely you
would prefer to bid 1s over 1c with KJTxx xxx xxx xx than with say Jxxx Qxx Qxx Jxx.
The problem hand has 9 cards in the major suits and while the 5 hcp are hardly awe
inspiring surely the increased odds of game in the majors makes bidding at least once
worthwhile. If p does not raise spades or reverse to hearts look for the easiest way out
of the bidding (ie POC to d if p bids 2c or 2d for ex).

[gszes]

mgoetze, on 2013-August-18, 16:58, said:

I imagine 30 years ago people might have thought of this as an interesting problem. Nowadays, I fully agree with

welcome back long time no see

[the hog]

Bid 1S and then follow up with 2D. wtp?

[fromageGB]

The point is that many people (now, not 30 years ago) reckon this is not a big enough hand to warrant a response. If 1♦ is a generic sort of hand with more diamonds than clubs, then if you do bid, you can easily find yourself in a hopeless contract. If partner expects an "X" count, and you have "Y", where X>Y, then you can get into a bad contract which damages partnership morale. For example, he rebids (maybe immediately, maybe delayed) 3NT on a 19 count 1354 shape, and your hand is useless.

So you have to draw the line somewhere, and agree it with partner. Fine if you agree this is a normal hand with which to reply, but then he knows and will not go overboard.

[mcphee]

It is bad bridge to pass this hand in response to 1D (even in the old days pass is poor). Clear 1S preparing to rebid a NF 2H over 1NT (or pass if you like)and take simple preference to 2D when partner rebids 2C. What is the possible downside from responding? Passing risks the loss of a possible major suit game, and on rare days a spade slam when pard hold as little as Axxx x AKQxx Axx, and partner could easily be better than that.

[mycroft]

The rebid *my* partner always has when I respond on dreck is 2NT...

But this is a 6 count by any reading, with the extra length and both majors. So I respond, and hope I have a hope in 3M (and that partner doesn't think 3♥ is forcing).

[billw55]

Agree to bid, and who needs a 6 count, or anything at all? It seems that in expert play these days, 1♠ requires little more than 4+ spades among 13 cards.

Personally, I would like to actually have something, but even so this is enough.

[mgoetze]

fromageGB, on 2013-August-19, 03:23, said:

The point is that many people (now, not 30 years ago) reckon this is not a big enough hand to warrant a response.

I think you are out of touch.

[billw55]

mgoetze, on 2013-August-19, 19:38, said:

I think you are out of touch.

I can attest to what fromage says. There is no shortage of old-fashioned point counters out there among club players. They don't go to tournaments much or post on forums, but they are around. I guess it depends on what you consider "many" to mean.

[gwnn]

fromageGB, on 2013-August-19, 03:23, said:

The point is that many people (now, not 30 years ago) reckon this is not a big enough hand to warrant a response. If 1♦ is a generic sort of hand with more diamonds than clubs, then if you do bid, you can easily find yourself in a hopeless contract. If partner expects an "X" count, and you have "Y", where X>Y, then you can get into a bad contract which damages partnership morale. For example, he rebids (maybe immediately, maybe delayed) 3NT on a 19 count 1354 shape, and your hand is useless.

So you have to draw the line somewhere, and agree it with partner. Fine if you agree this is a normal hand with which to reply, but then he knows and will not go overboard.

People are irrational but we shouldn't always take that into consideration. When partner forces to game he should do so fully knowing that game will not always make. I would force to game with that 19 count and shrug if we go down. I can look after my own morale, thanks pard, in the meantime we should worry about the much more likely case of us needing to play a partscore or us needing to be prepared for a partscore battle.

[neilkaz]

trevahound, on 2013-August-18, 11:36, said:

What Roger said. WTP?

Agreed completely.

[RGranville]

There's no difficulty with the actual sequence. Whether playing Acol or 5 card majors I would respond 1♠ and rebid 2♦ over 2♣.

Another participant has wondered what this hand should do after a 2NT rebid. Playing 5 card majors, do people still play the Wolff signoff? If so, you could rebid 3♣ and finish up in 3♥ or 3♠.

[aguahombre]

If Pard rebids 2NT, we don't have Wolff...and I don't care. Will rebid 3H and take my medicine; been in game down before, and the 2NT rebid is only one of many things that could happen.