[ArtDa]

I opened 1 NT with 15 points. Partner bid 2 C (Stayman) and I responded 2 D (no 4 card major). Partner then bid 3 D, which I passed. Partner said his bid showed 13+ points, I felt it was something like;-
S - K-Q-x-x
H - x-x
D - Q-J-x-x-x
C - x-x
Was I wrong?

ArtDa

[aguahombre]

Was 15 the top of your range or the bottom? The answer to that only pertains to how many points partner said his 3D showed.

Anyway, the situation is subject to agreement rather than dogma; but, I believe most common is that Stayman followed by 3D=forcing.

[mikeh]

As is so often the case in bridge, you will often hear different explanations of what this sequence means. Strangely, I had never heard of your version before, but that may say more about my lack of knowledge than about you

My understanding is that in standard north American bridge, the sequence is forcing. I wouldn't say it shows 13+, since you hardly need 13 hcp to create a game force opposite a strong 1N.

As to what other information it conveys, that depends on your system.

Do you have a method for immediately showing a game force hand with a long minor over 1N?

If you don't then you can use the sequence of stayman followed by 3m to do that.

If you do, then you can use the given sequence to promise a 4 card major AND a longer minor, with game force values: intending to raise the major if opener shows a fit, and otherwise to show the minor.

Note that in this second situation, responder has a hand that is strong enough to go to game, and maybe higher, but is worried that 3N may be the wrong spot, either because he fears the opps may be able to run one of the other 2 suits or because he has hopes for a higher contract.

I have seen some players use this sequence to get out in 3m, with a long minor suit and a very weak hand. I happen to think that is not a good use for the sequence, but in fairness these issues sort of fall away as you learn more sophisticated methods (such as 4 way transfers or walsh relays).

Note, I am assuming you play strong notrumps

[kenberg]

I see a lot of overlap with the previous, rather simultaneous, response from mikeh. You can probably skip this if you read his.

Anyway:
I can imagine playing it your way, but I prefer using that 3♦ bid as a slam try. Assuming that you have a way to transfer to diamonds over 1NT, you should ask yourself the meaning of 1NT-transfer-3♦-3♠. If that shows diamonds and spades then there is no need to have 1NT-2♣-2♦-3♦ show a strong hand with diamonds and a major. But I usually play that a transfer to diamonds followed by 3M shows shortness in M.

Am I making sense? You want a way to show a major/minor slam try, but you don't need two ways. My way is stayman then 3m if partner does not bid my major. But it is not everyone's way.

[Zelandakh]

mikeh, on 2014-April-29, 09:29, said:

I have seen some players use this sequence to get out in 3m, with a long minor suit and a very weak hand.

Mike, even if a pair uses 1NT - 2♣; 2M - 3m as a sign off it would make no sense whatsoever to play 1NT - 2♣; 2♦ - 3♦ this way. The only sensible natural options are GF or invitational and I have not seen invitational since the early 90s.

[ArtDa]

Thanks to you who bothered to give your opinion - looks as if the majority think the 3 D response is forcing. I read Barbara Seagram's detailed description of Stayman in her book "25 Bridge Conventions you should know" and found no mention of this specific bid..ArtDa

[TWO4BRIDGE]

1NT - 2C
2D - 3m = forcing ( Game force ) showing a 4 card Major and longer minor .

1NT - 2C
2M - 3m = same, but have 4 cards in OTHER Major ( ie. NO major fit ).

This is part of the Baze convention for Stayman auctions which has been mentioned on the forum a number of times.

[Bbradley62]

I often find the step-by-step convention cards loaded on BBO to be helpful to answer questions like this. According to both their "BBO Advanced 1.3" (2/1) and "SAYC" convention cards, 3♦ is natural and forcing.

[ggwhiz]

A common theme in bidding is the risk reward factor ie. after a 1nt opener you can't stop in exactly 2♣ because it's reserved for the many benefits of playing stayman.

This is sort of similar in that if 3♦ is (game) forcing you can't play there but can bid low and slow to bid light slams or get to the right game when 3nt doesn't make.

It only sort of applies here. Why would partner want to play in exactly 3♦ when they could have passed 2? Where it most often applies is after you respond 2M to stayman and partner bids 3m. I've wandered into some pretty nice 29-30 point slams by playing it as a game force and don't remember any of my plus 110 results as fondly.

As you go along you will run into 2/1 game force. A 1nt response to 1M is forcing for 1 round so we can't stop in 1nt but the rest of our bidding comes with benefits at the mere and rare cost of playing in 2nt -1.

[ArtDa]

Thanks all for your thoughtful replies. I'm convinced its forcing.. ArtDa