[gwnn]

It should be available here:
http://www.bbc.com/s...otball/27442869

[Cyberyeti]

 gwnn, on 2014-July-12, 06:52, said:

It should be available here:
http://www.bbc.com/s...otball/27442869

Strange, doesn't seem to be (although I know what you see depends on where you are).

[Aberlour10]

Strange mood is here in Germany in last days. All, media, ex-players, experts. fans etc etc are absolutely sure Germany is already now WC, these 90 min tomorrow are only mere formality must be done. The players in Brazil dont say it so open, but to loose is unimaginable for them (in their statements) Strange for me, because I see Germany in advantage too, but only about 60-40 hmmmmm

Its not the first time german team is a favorite but such a mania as in these days I did not see till now. If they will not win I belive ths land will fall in total schock.

[PhantomSac]

Bronze medal game is so lol. Ref has gotten like 5 huge calls wrong (2 involving penalty kicks).

Just like in bridge championships it seems inhumane to make them play this match heh

[Trinidad]

Agree. The game should have been over after 3 minutes with the obvious red card.

Rik

[gwnn]

The obvious red card for the obvious free kick you mean?

[PhantomSac]

 gwnn, on 2014-July-12, 16:50, said:

The obvious red card for the obvious free kick you mean?

Yeah. Which is superior for NED? I would guess that their best defensive player being red carded in the first 2 minutes and having a free kick from right outside the box is superior in EV than having silva yellowcarded but getting a penalty kick. They are both awesome obv and I don't know soccer so maybe I'm wrong but they must at least be pretty close? Missing the PK and having silva YC seems like such a disaster though, playing 10 vs 11 with the best defensive player out for an entire game while also getting a great free kick opportunity 100 % of the time seems better, even if the PK is like 80 %.

[Trinidad]

I look at it from an other perspective: Not what would be most advantageous to the Netherlands, but how big of a referee's mistake are we dealing with here.

The question penalty / free kick is a matter of observation. It is easy to say that the foul started outside the box, but that is not the criterion. The criterion is that if any part of the foul occurred in the penalty box it is a penalty kick. Then it is not such an easy call. At the point where Thiago Silva lets Robben go, Robben is certainly with both legs inside the box (which is not the criterion). Even in slow motion (and I have seen it about 25 times now) I find it very hard to see whether the hand is on or off Robben's shoulder when the hand and shoulder are crossing the line.

Giving a red card, however, is about the easiest call in the rule book. There was no other defender around (this is not difficult to see) and a scoring opportunity was taken away: red card.

But I think the referee made many major mistakes without particularly favoring a side:

Robben's yellow card was ridiculous.
In the second half, Brasil should have gotten a penalty kick (but got a yellow card).
Robben should have gotten a penalty kick.

to name a few.

If FIFA wants to take the 3rd/4th place game serious (and they say they do) then they should send a serious referee.

Rik

[gwnn]

Trinidad: yes, there were a bunch of awful calls (Robben seemed to handle the ball before his penalty btw). But giving a yellow card along with a penalty is nothing new and not exclusively employed by weak referees. It is a sort of misguided compassion. I don't like seeing it because it is clearly illegal but I could live with changing the rules telling referees to give only yellow cards if there is a penalty kick awarded and the challenge was not super dangerous, only done by the last man. Maybe silly but it is the de facto rules half the time so why not make it official.

 PhantomSac, on 2014-July-12, 19:54, said:

Yeah. Which is superior for NED? I would guess that their best defensive player being red carded in the first 2 minutes and having a free kick from right outside the box is superior in EV than having silva yellowcarded but getting a penalty kick. They are both awesome obv and I don't know soccer so maybe I'm wrong but they must at least be pretty close? Missing the PK and having silva YC seems like such a disaster though, playing 10 vs 11 with the best defensive player out for an entire game while also getting a great free kick opportunity 100 % of the time seems better, even if the PK is like 80 %.

Yes, I agree with this. Normally I would prefer a goal for my team to a red card, but this time it was so early, and Brazil looked so fragile in the back (with or without Thiago Silva), that I think a red card+FK has gotta be superior.

[Trinidad]

 gwnn, on 2014-July-13, 02:29, said:

Yes, I agree with this [red card being better than yellow + penalty]. Normally I would prefer a goal for my team to a red card, but this time it was so early, and Brazil looked so fragile in the back (with or without Thiago Silva), that I think a red card+FK has gotta be superior.

Not only was this early, but it was also in a match that could have lasted 120 minutes instead of 90. Essentially Brasil woudl have had the choice between three evils: Lose, having to score, or play 117 minutes with 10 vs 11.

Rik

[PhantomSac]

Congrats to Germany, deserving champions.

[Cyberyeti]

 PhantomSac, on 2014-July-13, 16:05, said:

Congrats to Germany, deserving champions.

A goal worthy of winning a world cup, great skill and finish, but if Argentina had had the same composure in front of goal, they might well have won it.

[MrAce]

 MrAce, on 2014-May-31, 09:25, said:

Quote

Football is a simple game. Twenty-two men chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans always win.

Gary Lineker

[Mbodell]

It was a good world cup with lots of good games. And I agree the best team won. Be interesting to see if Germany can continue a mini-dynasty around this time period since many of their players are young and they seem like they'll be a formidable team for quite some time.

[gwnn]

 Cyberyeti, on 2014-July-13, 16:09, said:

A goal worthy of winning a world cup, great skill and finish, but if Argentina had had the same composure in front of goal, they might well have won it.

Well but they didn't, did they? That's kind of the point. The better team won because composure in front of goal is a factor in making a team good. Incidentally, Germany also hit the bar twice (edit: misremembered oops).

[Trinidad]

Congrats to Germany! (I have to post this, since I am working in Germany. )

Rik

[gwnn]

What's the feeling about the Neuer intervention on Higuain (apparently some Argentinians claim it should have been a penalty)? I thought it was ridiculous to give a foul on the goalkeeper when he is so far off his line, but I don't think it is a foul on Higuain either. The interesting part is that the goalkeeper can use his hands so it seems like he is within his rights to jump as far as he needs to and maybe Higuain should have just avoided the colission since it is obvious that Neuer will get the ball (although perhaps not obvious to him whether the actual point of contact would be inside the box). On the other hand you could say that it is a reckless attack on Higuain (similar to what we'd been discussing before done by Balotelli). I'm a bit torn on this one as you may tell...

[Mbodell]

 gwnn, on 2014-July-14, 03:09, said:

What's the feeling about the Neuer intervention on Higuain (apparently some Argentinians claim it should have been a penalty)? I thought it was ridiculous to give a foul on the goalkeeper when he is so far off his line, but I don't think it is a foul on Higuain either. The interesting part is that the goalkeeper can use his hands so it seems like he is within his rights to jump as far as he needs to and maybe Higuain should have just avoided the colission since it is obvious that Neuer will get the ball (although perhaps not obvious to him whether the actual point of contact would be inside the box). On the other hand you could say that it is a reckless attack on Higuain (similar to what we'd been discussing before done by Balotelli). I'm a bit torn on this one as you may tell...

I thought no foul either way would have been fair. Neuer was clearly going all out for the ball and won it easily. It was only after he won the ball there was the contact. But Higuain was going all out for the ball and was unaware of what was happening so it didn't seem like a foul from him. I'm certainly no expert, but that's what I felt. I thought the more debatable question was if Neuer was still in the box with his hands as that seemed close.

[Cyberyeti]

 gwnn, on 2014-July-14, 03:09, said:

What's the feeling about the Neuer intervention on Higuain (apparently some Argentinians claim it should have been a penalty)? I thought it was ridiculous to give a foul on the goalkeeper when he is so far off his line, but I don't think it is a foul on Higuain either. The interesting part is that the goalkeeper can use his hands so it seems like he is within his rights to jump as far as he needs to and maybe Higuain should have just avoided the colission since it is obvious that Neuer will get the ball (although perhaps not obvious to him whether the actual point of contact would be inside the box). On the other hand you could say that it is a reckless attack on Higuain (similar to what we'd been discussing before done by Balotelli). I'm a bit torn on this one as you may tell...

No foul by Neuer, Higuain didn't really go for the ball, he was on the ground when contact was made which is why the free kick was given against him although I wouldn't have given the free kick. I thought he was just inside the area, but didn't really see it from a good angle.

I thought the ref and linesmen had an excellent game, they missed a few little things in unimportant areas of the pitch which is always going to happen, but got all the important decisions right.

[cherdano]

I didnt think this was a foul either way. I did think, however, that Mascherano should have seen a 2nd yellow card in extra time. My German bias or a reasonable view?
(I also thought tat Germany was clearly dominating the game. (JOKE!!!))