[Cthulhu D]

So playing 5cM with a 14-16 NT, you obviously have to know what you do with 5-3-3-2 hands in your NT range with 5 spades. I personally open 1N 100% of the time without any thought. Partner has a much more nuanced view and rarely opens 1N in this situation. Can you adjust your responses in constructive sequences to adjust for the relative probability that each partner has a strong NT with 5 spades in the subsequent auction?

Relevant ABF regulations:

Quote

3.7 Playing the same System
Both members of a partnership must play the same system, including bidding and card play agreements.
Where, as a matter of style, members frequently adopt different approaches from each other, that difference
(or those differences) must be disclosed on the system card.

For example, we play 1S-2NT-3NT as a balanced hand showing 'extras' (and we have ways of showing 6 card suits or any shortness or any 5422 so this is basically 5-3-3-2). Opposite me, partner 'knows' that I have 17-19. Whereas for me I cater to partner having a 15+ NT style hand. Therefore a quantitative NT invite means different things.

Other sequences require more significant adjustments to cater to partner's style. For example, after 1S-1N, I probably want a 2C rebid to mean different things depending on the partner that opened 1S. If I'm at the helm it MUST show 4 because I don't need to do anything else with a 14 count, but partner does need to make a noise so 2C could be on a doubleton. This then effects how you might want to raise partner.

To what extent can bids after 1S-1N-2C-?? have different meanings depending on the partner that opened 1S?

[hrothgar]

No

[Cthulhu D]

hrothgar, on 2014-December-08, 07:38, said:

No

I'm anticipating this means 'you have to agree the bids mean the same thing but you can adopt a different approach in deploying them' - otherwise how can you adopt a different 'style' at all?

Edit: Or is this a ridiculous situation where I am forbidden from discussing with partner that he has decided to rarely open 1N with 5 spades (only when the spades are poor quality) but I will always do it if 5-3-3-2 and sometimes (5242) because that would then form an agreement and it would be against the rules?

[Bbradley62]

Cthulhu D, on 2014-December-08, 07:19, said:

Therefore a quantitative NT invite means different things.

It doesn't mean different things; you both mean it as a quantitative invite based on partner's possible strength range. If one of you meant 1S-2N-3N-4N as quantitative and the other meant it as RKC, that would be different things.

[weejonnie]

You have to agree to the same conventions - but you do not have to agree how often each person employs them. The knowledge of partner's characteristics is acquired before the start of the hand and is thus authorised.(16A1D)

You may see a strong/ weak player agree to play transfers/ strong major replies after a 1NT opening.

If the weaker player opens 1NT then the stronger bid 3 Hearts/ Spades as invitational to game.
If the stronger player opens 1NT then the weaker bids 2 Diamonds then raises 2 Hearts to 3 hearts to invite game.

Nothing wrong about that - other than it is a waste of bidding resources. What would be wrong is if the stronger player used natural responses to 1NT and the weaker one used transfers.

I play 1NT opening with my partner as "12 - 15, may include a singleton. I bid 1NT with a singleton lots more often than he does."

[campboy]

Bbradley62, on 2014-December-08, 08:57, said:

It doesn't mean different things; you both mean it as a quantitative invite based on partner's possible strength range. If one of you meant 1S-2N-3N-4N as quantitative and the other meant it as RKC, that would be different things.

Yes, 4NT has the same meaning, but the possible issue here is that 3NT has a different meaning (15-19 for one partner but 17-19 for the other).

[blackshoe]

I do not think you can legally adjust the follow ups to a "style" bid based on the style of the player who made it. If you do, you're not playing the same system.

But perhaps here the issue can be circumvented by describing 3NT as "15-19" but with an additional comment about how your style affects partner's range. I suspect each case will have to be decided on its own; I don't see a general rule.

[Cthulhu D]

blackshoe, on 2014-December-08, 09:30, said:

I do not think you can legally adjust the follow ups to a "style" bid based on the style of the player who made it. If you do, you're not playing the same system.

But perhaps here the issue can be circumvented by describing 3NT as "15-19" but with an additional comment about how your style affects partner's range. I suspect each case will have to be decided on its own; I don't see a general rule.

The biggest issue is what do you need in terms of clubs to raise partner after an auction like 1S-1N-2C. Obviously if you always have 4 partner can freely raise, but if you may have 2 you need to be a lot more circumspect. If 3C here is defined as a weak hand with club length (the logical use of the bid if 2C is two ways with an artificial meaning), and one player always opens 1N with a 5-3-3-2 hand in range and the other player rarely does, the expected club lengths of 3C changes significantly.

You're skirting the edge of the regulations if 3C is defined as 4+ clubs but one partner is rarely going to have 4 for the raise.