[Fluffy]

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Say we lead ♣A, and partner plays ♣10 (declarer ♣6)

What should we return at trick 2 and why?

test your answer here: http://bridgegod.com....php?probid=460

[Free]

Strange, I switched to ♥2 and partner returned a ♦

[Fluffy]

I explain everything on the comments. When you switch to an encouraging heart, partner discards that you could have singleton club, you should therefore switch to a discouraging heart if you want partner to switch to clubs.

[gszes]

Fluffy, on 2015-January-12, 16:05, said:

I explain everything on the comments. When you switch to an encouraging heart, partner discards that you could have singleton club, you should therefore switch to a discouraging heart if you want partner to switch to clubs.

x QTxxx Kxxx Kxx


I am not so sure I like the logic of leading back a discouraging heart to obtain a club under these
circumstances. In a trump contract and with a dummy that has the needed entries to set up hearts
(if we continue playing them) it seems entirely too dangerous to ask partner to continue hearts
under the circumstances. Since hearts are an obvious danger suit it would seem to make more sense
to worry about dia or clubs as a reentry to hand. IMHO the heart returned should be asking for
the lower ranking of the two non danger suits (this is partnership agreement dependent of course). In
my case a simple low heart would ask for the needed club return.

Lets change the dummy to say xx xxxx Kxxx Kxx now a heart continuation would not be dangerous so we
now have 3 non danger suits and there is no easy way to show p what we really need. Change the dummy
to xx xxxx xxxx Kxx and the scenario becomes really grim since the proper continuation (from partner's
perspective) could be anything. If we return a non encouraging heart (as suggested above) why would
it be asking for a club vs the maybe much more obvious diamond? Free mentioned this concept sort of:)

IMHO the most important signal is one that asks for a ruff (when it is feasible like this hand) and any
other signal denies the desire to ruff and asks p to figure out what to do. This works for not only the
given hand but in my other examples.

[Fluffy]

It works for all examples, there is no signal for "I have led a singleotn ace", the standard signal when you open a suit is attitude, if you somehow define that you switch to lavinthal great for you, but what rules make it a lavinthal return or an attitude return is beyond me. An attitude return can be used to pinpoint club short if you care to think about it.

[gszes]

Fluffy, on 2015-January-13, 02:42, said:

It works for all examples, there is no signal for "I have led a singleotn ace", the standard signal when you open a suit is attitude, if you somehow define that you switch to lavinthal great for you, but what rules make it a lavinthal return or an attitude return is beyond me. An attitude return can be used to pinpoint club short if you care to think about it.

Singleton kings and even queens can have the same problem but prioritizing your signaling to possible defensive ruffs is really
no different than the high club at trick 1 (after the ace lead) asking for a heart return:)---one size does not fit all but in order
to prioritize your carding to defensive ruffs it is generally best to do so only when the situation is obvious to both defenders.

[FrancesHinden]

i don't understand the 10 of clubs from QJ10xxxx. The queen is suit preference for hearts. The lowest card is suit preference for diamonds. A middle card - as the 10 obviously is - is neutral.

[Fluffy]

I've known some players (mostly weak) who make exceptions with honnors and think they are not used for SP, the ♣10 is a sure high card since declarer could have ♣Jx still and north could not afford ♣Q. So I decided that ♣10 would be more universal. But I can be convinced I erred here.

BTW Frances, do you think what I made about ♥8 being the correct switch card to ask for a switch (to clubs) is correct?, before posting the hand I asked my partner and he agreed with me so I though I was right, but then I see gzesz saying that heart pips should be lavinthal, and I also got another good BBF poster who says he would give count in hearts rather than attitude.

[mikeh]

It seems to me implausible that a vulnerable 3♣ could be on Q109xx...., but the problem would be the same if the vulnerability were reversed, so I think Fluffy is correct and this is a rare instance of my disagreeing with Frances.

I also think that opener will always have 'better' middle spots. Since the basic rule of signalling is to be as clear as possible and not to be nuanced (unless the situation calls for nuance), I would expect partner to be able to play something on the lines of a 7, 8 or 9 as middle, and yes I see the 7 in dummy

As for the heart switch, when S can see that a ruff is coming, I think attitude is mandatory. The reason for a count lead is to allow partner to know whether a second trick will cash IN HEARTS. We don't care, yet, about that. We certainly don't want partner thinking about it. We want our club ruff.

The key is to think how we would defend if we made our diamond Q a small club. We'd still lead the club Ace, but now we need to cash winners rather than get ruffs.

We could switch to the heart K, and it is probably safe to do so, but there is a tiny risk that partner has the stiff Ace, and that would make us look silly, so we switch to an attitude heart card (or a count if you prefer combining count and attitude). Since we would lead a low heart when we want a heart back, knowing no ruff is available, we can't lead the same card when we don't want a heart back.