[eagles123]

---

what sort of hand are you expecting for West here?

MP if it matters

many thanks

Eagles

[whereagles]

4H, 5C

[Fluffy]

4♥ and 4+♣ about 6-8

[eagles123]

well i had

Jxx
AQxx
x
Txxxx

p drove it to 4h because "we have a double fit"

Tx
xxx
AKxx
AKTx

oops

[wank]

if you had 5 hearts you would just bid hearts again.

[eagles123]

wank, on 2015-January-29, 17:33, said:

if you had 5 hearts you would just bid hearts again.

tell that to my partner lol although she was just a random pickup

[Phil]

This definitely shows equal/longer clubs and only four hearts.

[johnu]

eagles123, on 2015-January-29, 16:30, said:

well i had

Jxx
AQxx
xx
Txxxx

I'm guessing you didn't actually have that hand

[steve2005]

Fluffy, on 2015-January-29, 14:52, said:

4♥ and 4+♣ about 6-8

give the guy a break he could have real crap at MP NV. With INV strength will do something else.

[rmnka447]

Fluffy, on 2015-January-29, 14:52, said:

4♥ and 4+♣ about 6-8

I agree with Fluffy.

When responding to a TOX with a minimum hand, it's often better to bid the higher ranking suit first so that you can rebid in the lower ranking suit and let partner still have a chance to preference between the suits without raising the level of the contract. That's especially so here where you 're already forced to bid at the 2 level. If advancer bids 2 ♣ initially, then the ♥ suit will be lost if opener rebids 2 ♠. Advancer's hand is just not good enough to introduce ♥s at the 3 level.

A second call by advancer should indicate top of range if 4-4 or 5-4. It could also be slightly less if very shapely 5-5 or better. With 5 ♥s, advancer would simply rebid ♥s as doubler guarantees at least 3.

Doubler does have a great 14, but it's still a 7 loser hand, so I'm passing 3 ♣.

[whereagles]

Terrible standards of pick up pards these days..

[MrAce]

I know it is fashion on BBF to say "I call TD" or "I am guessing you actually did not have this hand" or similar humorous ways, but you have 14 cards brother.

[eagles123]

sorry yes it was stiff diamond - edited

[ahydra]

rmnka447, on 2015-January-29, 22:43, said:

When responding to a TOX with a minimum hand, it's often better to bid the higher ranking suit first so that you can rebid in the lower ranking suit

With a minimum response to a TOX, say a 2-count, you would just bid once (as forced) and then shut up, surely. I'm guessing you're including all non-jump/1NT/2S-responses in "minimum", whereas this hand isn't really a minimum; it's right at the top strength-wise for a simple response, and has shape to boot.

I'm not convinced that this sequence necessarily has to deny 5 hearts - if you had x Kxxxx xx Q10xxx would you not bid 2H then 3C?

The rest of rmnka's post is spot on though, particularly the point that doubler should not be bidding anything else - there's no way the partnership has enough for game. 4H sounds like the kind of bid GIB likes to make.

ahydra

[rmnka447]

ahydra, on 2015-January-30, 08:09, said:

With a minimum response to a TOX, say a 2-count, you would just bid once (as forced) and then shut up, surely. I'm guessing you're including all non-jump/1NT/2S-responses in "minimum", whereas this hand isn't really a minimum; it's right at the top strength-wise for a simple response, and has shape to boot.

I'm not convinced that this sequence necessarily has to deny 5 hearts - if you had x Kxxxx xx Q10xxx would you not bid 2H then 3C?

The rest of rmnka's post is spot on though, particularly the point that doubler should not be bidding anything else - there's no way the partnership has enough for game. 4H sounds like the kind of bid GIB likes to make.

ahydra

Yes, you normally make one bid with a bad hand. But bidding the higher suit is preparing for the possibility that you might forced to bid again.

Say, for instance, in this auction that partner doubled again over 2 ♠ showing extras while you held the given hand albeit with only 2 points. Now you can 3 ♣ and let partner decide where to play. In this revised case, Partner's hand might be something like ♠ x ♥ AKx ♦ K6543 ♣ AJxx where partner elected to make a TOX rather than make a 2 level overcall on a terrible ♦ holding.

[fourdad]

A TOX misdescribes the sahpe of the hand. Strictly speaking the hand promises 4H's.
I would not X and wait to balance or defend, deciding that later in the auction.

2S is down 1 and a balance can likely drive opps higher.

[Jinksy]

fourdad, on 2015-January-31, 06:22, said:

A TOX misdescribes the sahpe of the hand. Strictly speaking the hand promises 4H's.
I would not X and wait to balance or defend, deciding that later in the auction.

A TOX just promises that you can handle a heart response from P. That can be based on shape, significant extra strength, or something in between. I'd prefer an honour in my tripleton, but this still looks like a clear X to me.

[AyunuS]

I would expect 5+♣, 4+♥, longer clubs than hearts, otherwise he would have bid hearts first, and 6-10 HCP. With 11+ HCP and that distribution he would have had to bid 2♠ on the first response, and with fewer than 6, he wouldn't have bid again.

[wank]

fourdad, on 2015-January-31, 06:22, said:

A TOX misdescribes the sahpe of the hand. Strictly speaking the hand promises 4H's.

you are very wrong. i suggest you read a book as this is quite basic.

[iandayre]

wank, on 2015-January-31, 12:46, said:

you are very wrong. i suggest you read a book as this is quite basic.

I'm glad you're here Wank. You say things the way I think them, though I've learned to be a bit diplomatic over the years.