[RedSpawn]

 Winstonm, on 2017-September-23, 19:57, said:

Department of Homeland Security announces that election systems in 21 states were attacked by Russian hackers but few were breached. Question: which states were breached and what was the result of the breaches

Yes and when did they discover these attacks and what countermeasures, if any, were taken as a result of this finding?

For example, did the Department of Homeland Security's delayed designation of state elections' information technology and communication systems as "critical federal election infrastructure" on 01/06/17 have anything to do with these 21 attacks? See link below.

Ambiguity can be hazardous to the body politic and quite advantageous for the PTB.

https://www.dhs.gov/...ucture-critical

[Winstonm]

 barmar, on 2017-September-24, 05:56, said:

Bill Maher's closing monologue this week described Republicans and Democrats as being like "The Country Mouse and the City Mouse". He pointed out that while Trump claims to be speaking for the "real Americans", he's really a New Yorker, much more at home working with other city folk like Pelosi and Schumer. What he's found in the folks in red districts are suckers -- he's like a carnival barker or snake oil salesman who goes out into the country and plays those rubes for fools, and they go for it.

To be fair, many of those people are suffering in modern America, so they were poised to respond to anyone who claimed to have a solution. If you don't have real medicine, that snake oil starts to look pretty good. The problem we have now is that people have been taking the snake oil, it hasn't helped at all, yet they're taking it, expecting it will eventually kick in, and also recommending it to their friends. Do you have to wait until you die before admitting that there were no active ingredients?

It seems to me that people of Christian faith are more susceptible to con than others, as they are conditioned to believe based on the ability of speakers to tap into their emotions; is it mere coincidence that Trump did so well among whites and evangelicals - he hit all the right notes, the religious con and the racist con.

[RedSpawn]

 barmar, on 2017-September-24, 05:56, said:

Bill Maher's closing monologue this week described Republicans and Democrats as being like "The Country Mouse and the City Mouse". He pointed out that while Trump claims to be speaking for the "real Americans", he's really a New Yorker, much more at home working with other city folk like Pelosi and Schumer. What he's found in the folks in red districts are suckers -- he's like a carnival barker or snake oil salesman who goes out into the country and plays those rubes for fools, and they go for it.

To be fair, many of those people are suffering in modern America, so they were poised to respond to anyone who claimed to have a solution. If you don't have real medicine, that snake oil starts to look pretty good. The problem we have now is that people have been taking the snake oil, it hasn't helped at all, yet they're taking it, expecting it will eventually kick in, and also recommending it to their friends. Do you have to wait until you die before admitting that there were no active ingredients?

Barmar, you have opened up a bevy of issues:

• America has historically used propaganda rather successfully to fool lower-income and lower class whites into believing that the political platforms were about them when the platforms were really about providing big businesses and "special interests" 1st class access to her institutions (legal, government, political, and educational).
  
• When America first was born, we had to worry about busting up trusts to promote the development of capital markets; to stop anti-competitive behavior; and to stop the consolidation of power into a few enterprising families who owned controlling interests in certain industries (e.g. cotton, tobacco, whisky, peanut, steel, oil & gas, utilities).
  We also focused very heavily on the development of the "public good" such as interstate highways, railroads and national defense. The body politic wanted these public goods too as it promotes jobs, interstate commerce and public safety, but their creation was to fundamentally address a business concern which would eventually trickle down to benefit the body politic and "the masses".
  
• Poor whites have constantly thought if they sided with the "business" political party that they would eventually reap the prosperity enjoyed by the upper class. If they would remain patient, they might eventually obtain and retain respectable stable employment and migrate from living in a trailer park to detached housing in a safe, affordable community.

But that American dream deferred has become a dream denied. In an unforgiving and uncompromising global economy, the opportunities for greatness in America are slipping further and further away from their grasp. Politicians are no longer pied pipers who can easily play melodic or hypnotic tunes with their magical flutes to woo the body politic into unquestioned submission. The average American knows we aren't in Kansas anymore, they just may not know why!

A lot of poor whites are realizing that they and generations before them have been taken for granted and exploited for political gain. They smell a rat. And enter stage left, snake oil salesman who has just the magical flute to lure the rats away from the village and allegedly drain the swamp.

Problem is Trump is both the cause and cure.

[Winstonm]

Perhaps someone can help me form this correctly.

Trump reminds me of a class of person I have run into time to time throughout my life who sits in the back of the room when an invited guest comes in to talk about something considered serious, and he exchanges with like-minded others condescending nudges while either rolling his eyes, snickering, or in other ways showing smug disinterest - displaying obvious disdain and feigning superiority. The critical part of this is the "like-minded others" as his ability to interact on a broad scale is diminished by his disdain - so in the end all he can do is nudge and roll his eyes with his cohorts.

I've never been able to categorize this type of behavior succinctly. Perhaps Trumpian?

[y66]

 barmar, on 2017-September-24, 05:56, said:

Bill Maher's closing monologue this week described Republicans and Democrats as being like "The Country Mouse and the City Mouse". He pointed out that while Trump claims to be speaking for the "real Americans", he's really a New Yorker, much more at home working with other city folk like Pelosi and Schumer. What he's found in the folks in red districts are suckers -- he's like a carnival barker or snake oil salesman who goes out into the country and plays those rubes for fools, and they go for it.

To be fair, many of those people are suffering in modern America, so they were poised to respond to anyone who claimed to have a solution. If you don't have real medicine, that snake oil starts to look pretty good. The problem we have now is that people have been taking the snake oil, it hasn't helped at all, yet they're taking it, expecting it will eventually kick in, and also recommending it to their friends. Do you have to wait until you die before admitting that there were no active ingredients?

The problem we have now is that the inmates are running all 3 branches of the asylum and 68 state legislative chambers.

[RedSpawn]

 Winstonm, on 2017-September-24, 07:21, said:

It seems to me that people of Christian faith are more susceptible to con than others, as they are conditioned to believe based on the ability of speakers to tap into their emotions; is it mere coincidence that Trump did so well among whites and evangelicals - he hit all the right notes, the religious con and the racist con.

I disagree. Propaganda sells belief systems. Our acquisition of attitudes and beliefs comes from several sources but mass media is one of them. Advertisers and mass marketers understand the psychology of the human mind and the importance of making a value proposition based on the belief system of the reader/viewer/consumer.

Belief systems are the stories we tell ourselves to define our personal sense of reality. If you understand the belief system (not agree with it but understand it), you can find common ground rather quickly.

This is why he who controls the narrative controls the universe. People base their reality on the narrative so creators tend to run the world.
Consumers just subsist in it and benefit or suffer from the intended and unintended consequences of all of these amazing creations.

I think racists can be just as gullible as religious zealots, I think Democrats can be just as gullible as Republicans. Tap into the belief system and all types of mind boggling manipulations are possible.

[Winstonm]

 RedSpawn, on 2017-September-24, 09:01, said:

I disagree. Propaganda sells belief systems. Our acquisition of attitudes and beliefs comes from several sources but mass media is one of them. Advertisers and mass marketers understand the psychology of the human mind and the importance of making a value proposition based on the belief system of the reader/viewer/consumer.

Belief systems are the stories we tell ourselves to define our personal sense of reality. If you understand the belief system (not agree with it but understand it), you can find common ground rather quickly.

This is why he who controls the narrative controls the universe. People base their reality on the narrative so creators tend to run the world.
Consumers just subsist in it and benefit or suffer from the intended and unintended consequences of all of these amazing creations.

I think racists can be just as gullible as religious zealots, I think Democrats can be just as gullible as Republicans. Tap into the belief system and all types of mind boggling manipulations are possible.

I don't see how you disagree when you echo the same sentiments. If you look closely, you will find that most racists are religious(KKK very much so), and the religious self-identify more with the right wing of politics than the left wing. Trump uses white supremacist propaganda (anti-muslim, anti-Mexican, white discrimination, evil left) to stir his base of white voters.

If you note, I said most racists are religious, not that most religious are racists. But the evangelical belief systems, IMO, make it easier for those people to accept on faith a story that sounds good to them but doesn't hold up when spotlighted by the harsh lights of data and evidence. (see their take on how whites are the subjects of discrimination.)

[Winstonm]

Is this the ultimate irony or what? Politico reports:

Quote

Kushner used private email to conduct White House business

The senior adviser set up the account after the election. Other West Wing officials have also used private email accounts for official business.

[kenberg]

 Winstonm, on 2017-September-24, 13:54, said:

Is this the ultimate irony or what? Politico reports:

Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!

Is James Comey free to head up the investigation?

[Winstonm]

 kenberg, on 2017-September-24, 14:49, said:

Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!

Is James Comey free to head up the investigation?

I think Comey was Flynn-flammed by Trump.

[rmnka447]

 kenberg, on 2017-September-24, 14:49, said:

Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!

Is James Comey free to head up the investigation?

We all know what the result of the investigation of that "matter" will be. Comey will say that there's not enough evidence to prosecute.

BTW, if the "business" wasn't about "classified" matters or content, it probably doesn't violate any laws.

Doesn't Kushner get to destroy 33,000 of his subpoenaed e-mails like Hillary did?

[Winstonm]

 rmnka447, on 2017-September-24, 21:12, said:

We all know what the result of the investigation of that "matter" will be. Comey will say that there's not enough evidence to prosecute.

BTW, if the "business" wasn't about "classified" matters or content, it probably doesn't violate any laws.

Doesn't Kushner get to destroy 33,000 of his subpoenaed e-mails like Hillary did?

Can you refresh me on the rules for plyaying Whatabout? Are there still 14 smirkles in a drubey? Can the smutter dribble-drabble or must he patter only? How does the winjimmer acton after a brusie diggles?

Does it matter that the person whatabouted is not in office? How does whatabout explain the actions of the person whose actions caused the whatabouter to whatabout in the first place?

Whatabout trying to explain the actions of the current officeholders and the administration without whatabouting about whatever whatabout currently is favored by the whatabouting tv talking head?

[cherdano]

 rmnka447, on 2017-September-24, 21:12, said:

We all know what the result of the investigation of that "matter" will be. Comey will say that there's not enough evidence to prosecute.

BTW, if the "business" wasn't about "classified" matters or content, it probably doesn't violate any laws.

Doesn't Kushner get to destroy 33,000 of his subpoenaed e-mails like Hillary did?

This is a very informative post. Not about Clinton or Comey or Kushner. No, about rmnka447. Thank you!

[jjbrr]

"thank you"

[RedSpawn]

 Winstonm, on 2017-September-24, 08:05, said:

Perhaps someone can help me form this correctly.

Trump reminds me of a class of person I have run into time to time throughout my life who sits in the back of the room when an invited guest comes in to talk about something considered serious, and he exchanges with like-minded others condescending nudges while either rolling his eyes, snickering, or in other ways showing smug disinterest - displaying obvious disdain and feigning superiority. The critical part of this is the "like-minded others" as his ability to interact on a broad scale is diminished by his disdain - so in the end all he can do is nudge and roll his eyes with his cohorts.

I've never been able to categorize this type of behavior succinctly. Perhaps Trumpian?

I am not sure that is distinctly Trumpian. This behavior sounds like classic elitism combined with a dash of American materialism to me.

Quote

Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite—a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality, high intellect, wealth, specialized training, experience, or talents—are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole, and therefore deserve influence or authority greater than that of others. In America, the term "elitism" often refers to the concentration of power on the Northeast Corridor and West Coast, where the typical American elite - lawyers, doctors, high-level civil servants (such as White House aides), businesspeople, university lecturers, entrepreneurs and financial advisors in the quarternary sector - reside, often in the university towns they graduated from.

Wikipedia

Trump is the result of America's cognitive bias about wealth. We assume that wealthy people have a "good" reason why they are wealthy and it must be because of their entrepreneurial ingenuity, wisdom, character and "specialness" that they have jaw-dropping displays of wealth. We also assume that wealthy people are the ones who deserve 1st consideration to the White House because middle-class and poor people are too busy with their nose to the grindstones in the daily rat race to be of much service in government leadership. They aren't special; they're normal and barely keeping their heads above water and making a wave to carry themselves to safety.

The Office of the President is reserved for "special" people; typically those "special" people are wealthy or highly connected people who can hob knob with other uppercrust people in Washington. And we are clear that this bias has been unhealthy for our governmental institutions and our broad and personal economy but we don't question our misplaced assumptions about wealth nor do we question why and how we got to a HRC versus Trump election for 2016!

True, Trump may be a con-man but he is a savvy con man who has effectively established a bankable brand in the American marketplace because he understands our biases and manipulates them for personal gain. THAT's what successful marketers do! People overlooked his character issues because his alleged wealth as a businessman "MEANS SOMETHING" in a materialistic America.

He must be doing something right because his material wealth says so. He is a household name!

Furthermore, his "straight shooter" mentality was provocative and a refreshing change for a political climate built on too much political correctness, appeasement, and insincere social niceties to appeal to a broad base.

Trump tells it like it is even if his view is shallow, immature, petulant, misguided, sexist or racist. And people reward Trump for this alarming "authenticity" because too many politicians hide their true selves and belief systems behind meticulously constructed semantics and firmly cemented social masks.

[y66]

From The Day the Real Patriots Took a Knee by the NYT Editorial Board:

Quote

At a political rally in Alabama on Friday, President Trump had clear advice for N.F.L. owners if one of their players followed the lead of Colin Kaepernick, the former Super Bowl quarterback who last season began kneeling during the national anthem to protest police injustice against minorities. “Get that son of a bitch off the field right now,” he suggested.

The reaction was swift and stunning in its breadth — even as Mr. Trump went further on Sunday by calling for fans to boycott games unless the league fires or suspends players who refuse to stand for the national anthem.

More players than ever took a knee and many teams locked arms in solidarity. Owner after owner slammed Mr. Trump. Robert Kraft, the New England Patriots owner who is reportedly among several owners who donated $1 million to Trump’s inaugural celebrations, said he was “deeply disappointed” by Mr. Trump’s comments and defended his players’ right to “peacefully affect social change and raise awareness in a manner they feel is most impactful.”

The former N.F.L. coach Rex Ryan, who introduced Mr. Trump at a rally during the campaign, was furious and bitter at now being tied to Mr. Trump. “I never signed up for that,” Mr. Ryan said on CBS’s “Sunday N.F.L. Countdown,” where he is a commentator.

Neither man said it directly, but Mr. Trump’s remarks provide further evidence that he has no concern for the legitimate and deeply felt fears and grievances of minority Americans.

Quote

Sunday’s revolt against Mr. Trump was not quite a victory for Mr. Kaepernick; no team has even offered him a backup position despite a striking level of mediocrity among even many starting quarterbacks. Still, it might well have been a huge victory for free speech and the cause of racial justice he has so bravely espoused.

Let the final word, for now, belong to a basketball player, LeBron James of the Cleveland Cavaliers. Upon hearing that Mr. Trump had disinvited Stephen Curry of the Golden State Warriors from the traditional White House ceremony honoring championship teams, Mr. James said on Twitter:

“U bum,” adding, “Going to White House was a great honor until you showed up!”

Not a victory for Kaepernick? We shall see.

[barmar]

 RedSpawn, on 2017-September-25, 06:06, said:

He must be doing something right because his material wealth says so. He is a household name!

We're in Oz and he's the Wizard!

[Winstonm]

 RedSpawn, on 2017-September-25, 06:06, said:

I am not sure that is distinctly Trumpian. This behavior sounds like classic elitism combined with a dash of American materialism to me.

I've never considered WWE fans elitists.

[Winstonm]

How do we combat purposeful fake news?

Quote

“Facts have come to light that indicate that a pivotal, close election was likely changed through voter fraud on November 8, 2016: New Hampshire’s U.S. Senate Seat, and perhaps also New Hampshire’s four electoral college votes in the presidential election. … It has long been reported, anecdotally, that out-of-staters take advantage of New Hampshire’s same-day registration and head to the Granite State to cast fraudulent votes. Now there’s proof.”
— Kris Kobach, vice chairman of the Presidential Commission on Election Integrity, in an op-ed in Breitbart, Sept. 7, 2017

WaPo Fact Checker discounts Kobach's claims:

Quote

Kobach claims that there are now “facts” and “proof” that show out-of-state voters took advantage of New Hampshire’s same-day registration provision to commit voter fraud. That is hardly the case.

Kobach says there were 5,313 fraudulent ballots cast by out-of-state voters in New Hampshire. That is not supported by facts. New Hampshire allows temporary residents with out-of-state IDs to vote in the state, as long as they primarily live in the state. It does not necessarily mean these voters committed fraud. The state is investigating 196 people who voted in another state but were on the New Hampshire voter list. Even if all 196 people were confirmed as fraudulent cases, it would not be enough to tip the outcome of either the Senate or the presidential race.

Words like “facts” and “proof” actually mean something — everything, really — to us at The Fact Checker. We award Four Pinocchios.

Individuals who purposefully create a false narrative, and the businesses that aid in the distribution of that known false narrative must be neutered by a continual and organized marginalization of those people and businesses every single time they open their mouth or repeat a lie.

This is not about free speech rights. This is about the necessity to respond forcefully and fully to propaganda that is necessary to preserve truth as the foundation of democracy.

[jjbrr]

Kris Kobach has been sued by the ACLU 4 times for voter suppression. ACLU won all 4 cases.

He's the real fraud, here.