[mike777]

hnsl, on 2016-September-28, 16:48, said:

Using Precision:

1♣¹ - 1♠²
2♦³ - 2NT⁴
3♦⁵ - 4♦⁶
4♠⁷ - 5♦⁸
7♠⁹

1 - 16+ HCP or a very favorable distribution
2 - 8+ HCP, 5+ spades, forcing to game
3 - 5+ diamonds, recommended as trump suit and asking for support (alfa)
4 - positive answer: better than Qxx support and no more than 3 controls (A=2, K=1)
5 - asking for top honors in the trump suit (still diamonds)
6 - two top honors, should be Ace and Queen since East holds the King
7 - asking for controls in spades (epsilon)
8 - second round control, should be King since West has shown spade suit
9 - holding first round control in all suits, counting 5 spades + 6 diamonds + 1 club + 1 heart ruff

It must be nice to play against opp who never bid at fav ful........silly auction.

[mike777]

Cyberyeti, on 2016-September-27, 08:59, said:

Our auction unless E got hyper aggressive would be: (1♦-1♠-3♥ is not a splinter for us and the E hand is prob not quite good enough for 1♦-1♠-4♥ optional voidwood)

1♦-1♠
3♠-4♦
5♥(voidwood)-6♣(2 without Q)
6♦(I have K ♦, bid 7 with 3rd round control)-7♠

Yet another wonderful auction where the opp never bid at fav vul.

I can only repeat my first post, these auctions are silly, this is a tough hand, not easy.

[Cyberyeti]

mike777, on 2016-September-28, 23:54, said:

Yet another wonderful auction where the opp never bid at fav vul.

I can only repeat my first post, these auctions are silly, this is a tough hand, not easy.

Well there is no diversity in auction if opps bid 1♥-4♥, everybody's going to start 1♦-(1♥)-1♠-(4♥)-5♥-6♦ and then you're kinda guessing, probably 6♥-6/7♠.

[Kaitlyn S]

Cyberyeti, on 2016-September-29, 02:41, said:

Well there is no diversity in auction if opps bid 1♥-4♥, everybody's going to start 1♦-(1♥)-1♠-(4♥)-5♥-6♦ and then you're kinda guessing, probably 6♥-6/7♠.

There is diversity. Despite the result, I'm content with 4S over 4H - you might tempt me to bid 5H with: S-AQxx H- D-KQxxxx C-Axx.

5H can be really dangerous if partner has a weak hand. What if the overcaller doubles to suggest defense (some high diamonds) and the 4H bidder has four spades? I'm not saying that is what double of 5H shows but that's how the pair might play it. 5S is going for a huge number while 4S wouldn't have been doubled (since as far as the 4H bidder is concerned, the 1H overcall could have been on AKxxx and out.)

You might go for a pretty good number even with a big spade fit if the overcaller has your diamonds in check. It's not unbelievable to lose 2 diamonds and 2 clubs. I forgot the vulnerability, but even -300 against -50 is 6 IMPs, or at matchpionts, -300 is only decent if pairs are allowed to play 4H making - a pretty unlikely scenario considering opener's hand.

[Cyberyeti]

Kaitlyn S, on 2016-September-29, 09:29, said:

There is diversity. Despite the result, I'm content with 4S over 4H - you might tempt me to bid 5H with: S-AQxx H- D-KQxxxx C-Axx.

5H can be really dangerous if partner has a weak hand. What if the overcaller doubles to suggest defense (some high diamonds) and the 4H bidder has four spades? I'm not saying that is what double of 5H shows but that's how the pair might play it. 5S is going for a huge number while 4S wouldn't have been doubled (since as far as the 4H bidder is concerned, the 1H overcall could have been on AKxxx and out.)

You might go for a pretty good number even with a big spade fit if the overcaller has your diamonds in check. It's not unbelievable to lose 2 diamonds and 2 clubs. I forgot the vulnerability, but even -300 against -50 is 6 IMPs, or at matchpionts, -300 is only decent if pairs are allowed to play 4H making - a pretty unlikely scenario considering opener's hand.

well 1♠ shows 5 in my world, so the chance of anybody else having 4 is pretty small and they're onside, also partner didn't have to bid 1♠ on tram tickets, and we haven't necessarily beaten 5♥ if spades are 3-1 and the diamonds are over.

[Fluffy]

miamijd, on 2016-September-27, 15:24, said:

If you don't play Last Train, you should consider doing so. Makes slam exploration a lot easier.

I play invitational cuebids in much more situations than others, you can call them last train if you wish, here you could call 4♥ as "Last train with void".

Having a last train bid ambiguous towards a key feature of the hand such as having 1 or 0 hearts doesn't looks suboptimal to me, but on any case, if your partner is sure about this meaning, a firm agreement is always better than a neboulous theorically better one.

[rmnka447]

mike777, on 2016-September-28, 23:54, said:

Yet another wonderful auction where the opp never bid at fav vul.

I can only repeat my first post, these auctions are silly, this is a tough hand, not easy.

Well, the "conditions of contest" posed by the OP didn't specify opponent interference.

Your point that the opponents will interfere is well taken when the full hand was shown. With the interference, reaching 4 ♠ is pretty certain, but reaching slam is less so because the bidding space consumed restricts the exchange of key information needed to bid on. FTR, I'd probably be more likely to take Kaitlyn S's tack and just bid 4 ♠ pretty much for the reasons she states.

Nonetheless, OP asked about how to bid the two hands given to get to slam. OP indicated they only reached 4 ♠. In effect, OP was asking for a lesson in how to recognize that slam was possible and how to exchange information through bidding to get there. Each of the bidding sequences given by forum members shows potential ways to do that, so may be instructive to OP. One of the big differences between intermediate/advanced players and really top notch players is the ability to visualize when slams are possible and get the exchange of information right so they can be bid. When forum members can shed some light on these processes to a player who is unsure about how to see and bid the slam, it is useful.

I don't disagree that bidding these hands are tough even without interference. At the table, I wouldn't expect the bidding sequences to proceed very quickly. Each bid would be need to be digested to understand what is implied by it and how it affects chances for slam. But top players should work their way through and get to at least small slam without interference. Whether they find their way to bid grand is much more a topic for discussion.

[jogs]

1♦ - 1♠
4♦

4♦ shows 6 diamonds plus 4 spades. How can opener be sure responder holds both the ♦A and Q?
Tough to go higher than 6♦.
If opponents interfere it may be easier to find 7♦. Cue in hearts would show a void.