[Shugart23]

his is a weird one.......Diamonds are trump.....Declarer calls for the Heart Ten to be played off the Board ( we all know he is trumping Hearts)....the hearts on the board are the 7 and 8....Dummy reaches down to play a Heart and then I drop the 9 of Hearts almost simultaneously and then we all realize there is no 10 of Hearts to be led..Declarer says, I meant to call for the Diamond 10 (which did exist in Dummy)......we call the Director over and she isn't sure what is the correct action...So she says Declarer should lead the 10 of Diamonds and my 9 of Hearts becomes a penalty card....I don't think this is correct. I think Declarer called for a Heart and my play of the 9 of Hearts accepted the call.......but who knows ? This is ACBL

[blackshoe]

Your guess that "declarer called for a heart" is incorrect.

Quote

Law 46B4: If declarer calls a card that is not in dummy, the call is void and declarer may designate any legal card.

The director was correct in that the card led from dummy is changed to the ♦10.

Quote

Law 47D: After an opponent’s change of play, a played card may be withdrawn and returned to the hand without further rectification and another card may be substituted. (Laws 16D and 62C2 may apply.)

The director was incorrect about the penalty card. You can put the ♥9 back in your hand and play whatever you like, following suit of course if you have a diamond. Per

Quote

Law 16D: When a call or play has been withdrawn as these Laws provide:
1. For a non-offending side, all information arising from a withdrawn action is authorized, whether the action be its own or its opponents’.
2. For an offending side, information arising from its own withdrawn action and from withdrawn actions of the non-offending side is unauthorized. A player of an offending side may not choose from among logical alternative actions one that could demonstrably have been suggested over another by the unauthorized information.

Information arising from the withdrawal of the ♥9 is authorized to you and unauthorized to declarer.

[nielsbio]

I have much sympathy for your solution - and I might treat it the same way in the club etc.
But I dont think it is legal

D 10 is off cause the card to be played.
OP says "Declarer called for a heart." Sure!, and "Declarer called for a 10'er." Same logic, but also not a distinct call.

BUT. Has dummy played a card, before LHO tables his ♥ 9?
OP says "Dummy reaches down to play a heart ..." That for me does not sound like a heart has been played yet, nor placed in a played position.

I have the feeling, that you have to accept the TD's ruling for now. And then maybe (possibly) look at Law 73 (about misleading) AFTER the play.

Not at all elegant, I agree.

[gordontd]

nielsbio, on 2016-November-15, 10:43, said:

D 10 is off cause the card to be played.
OP says "Declarer called for a heart." Sure!, and "Declarer called for a 10'er." Same logic, but also not a distinct call.

BUT. Has dummy played a card, before LHO tables his ♥ 9?
OP says "Dummy reaches down to play a heart ..." That for me does not sound like a heart has been played yet, nor placed in a played position.

I agree with this.

nielsbio, on 2016-November-15, 10:43, said:

I have the feeling, that you have to accept the TD's ruling for now. And then maybe (possibly) look at Law 73 (about misleading) AFTER the play.

Not at all elegant, I agree.

I don't think L73 applies here. You could go to L23, but the simpler solution, if you think it is right, is simply to deem that the H9 is not a penalty card. Your powers to do so as a TD are unlimited.

[blackshoe]

Please explain to me precisely why my "ruling" is illegal.

[pran]

blackshoe, on 2016-November-15, 16:21, said:

Please explain to me precisely why my "ruling" is illegal.

It seems to me that the important question is whether dummy actually played a card or just was about to play a card.

If he did play a card (a low ♥) then this play from dummy is withdrawn and LHO may restore his ♥9 as blackshoe wrote.

But if dummy only was about to play then the play of the ♥9 is a premature lead (out of turn) to the trick and eventually becomes a major penalty card.

[blackshoe]

Dummy doesn't play his cards, declarer does.

[pran]

blackshoe, on 2016-November-15, 22:52, said:

Dummy doesn't play his cards, declarer does.

In this case "play" refers to the manual action performed by Dummy.

Read my statement this way:
It seems to me that the important question is whether dummy actually placed a card in the played position or just was about to do so.

My original statement obviously meant the same and didn't involve so many surplus words.

[blackshoe]

If it was obvious, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[barmar]

blackshoe, on 2016-November-16, 10:02, said:

If it was obvious, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Perhaps, but sometimes people just like to be passive-aggressive by being overly pedantic.

[axman]

Shugart23, on 2016-November-10, 18:59, said:

his is a weird one.......Diamonds are trump.....Declarer calls for the Heart Ten to be played off the Board ( we all know he is trumping Hearts)....the hearts on the board are the 7 and 8....Dummy reaches down to play a Heart and then I drop the 9 of Hearts almost simultaneously and then we all realize there is no 10 of Hearts to be led..Declarer says, I meant to call for the Diamond 10 (which did exist in Dummy)......we call the Director over and she isn't sure what is the correct action...So she says Declarer should lead the 10 of Diamonds and my 9 of Hearts becomes a penalty card....I don't think this is correct. I think Declarer called for a Heart and my play of the 9 of Hearts accepted the call.......but who knows ? This is ACBL

The call for the HT is automatically canceled (L46B4) as there is no HT in dummy. Dummy has not yet played a card. Thus the H9 is the first card played to the trick OOT (LOOT). Declarer's comment about the DT is extraneous and not a designation. If declarer fails to accept (L53A) then dummy must lead. However, the law does not first provide for requiring the LOOT be retracted (in order that dummy's card be the first played to the trick and thus be a lead). This is an impasse for which the law does not provide a way to proceed.

Notably, L53C gives the otherwise proper player to lead permission (not requirement) to lead without waiting for retraction of the LOOT (but retraction is provided after the correct player does what is impossible to do: lead). However, the same impasse occurs as above for the same reason.

This post has been edited by axman: 2016-November-16, 11:48

[pran]

axman, on 2016-November-16, 11:41, said:

The call for the HT is automatically canceled (L46B4) as there is no HT in dummy. Dummy has not yet played a card. Thus the H9 is the first card played to the trick OOT (LOOT). Declarer's comment about the DT is extraneous and not a designation. If declarer fails to accept (L53A) then dummy must lead. However, the law does not first provide for requiring the LOOT be retracted (in order that dummy's card be the first played to the trick and thus be a lead). This is an impasse for which the law does not provide a way to proceed.

Notably, L53C gives the otherwise proper player to lead permission (not requirement) to lead without waiting for retraction of the LOOT (but retraction is provided after the correct player does what is impossible to do: lead). However, the same impasse occurs as above for the same reason.

Although no card has yet been played from Dummy you should not overlook

Law 45D said:

If dummy places in the played position a card that declarer did not name, the card must be withdrawn if attention is drawn to it before each side has played to the next trick, and a defender may withdraw and return to his hand a card played after the error but before attention was drawn to it; if declarer’s RHO changes his play, declarer may withdraw a card he had subsequently played to that trick. (See Law 16D.)

(This comment applies also to my "conversation" with blackshoe)