[RMB1]

WellSpyder, on 2017-February-15, 05:13, said:

Thanks, Gordon. That is what I do, but Robin's post seemed to suggest something different.

I had written:

RMB1, on 2017-February-14, 10:37, said:

I think EBU Blue Book 4D1 implies that all non-forcing 1♦ should be announced.

I was wrong, try:

Quote

I think EBU Blue Book 4D1 implies that all not natural non-forcing 1♦ should be announced.

1♦ which shows 3+ ♦ can not be announced because there is no prescribed announcement.

[Zelandakh]

mycroft, on 2017-February-15, 12:24, said:

I think the difference here is the same one as between a relay and a relay system. Stayman is a relay - the cheapest bid, saying "nothing", and asking partner to describe their hand. A relay system is one (handwaving here, and I am *not* talking the definition on the ACBL GCC here) where in common situations, bidding will proceed by one person making descriptive bids and the other one (almost always) relaying, until the relayer makes a decision on where to play.

I have been known to play 2♠ after 1NT - 2♣; 2♦/♥ and 3♦ after 1NT - 2♣; 2♠ as Baron-like (with linked major-minor in the latter case), which functions identically to the relay systems you describe. Similarly if you play 2♦ waiting over 2♣ and follow with 2NT as a further waiting call over a 2M rebid, this also has a similar function. Are these also relay systems or just conventional treatments?

[fromageGB]

I think "system" implies "frequency", so if the majority of your constructive auctions involved relays you could describe it as a relay system. The occasional relay bid everyone makes (some more than others) is not that frequent, so this does not describe the system.

[Zelandakh]

fromageGB, on 2017-February-16, 04:14, said:

I think "system" implies "frequency", so if the majority of your constructive auctions involved relays you could describe it as a relay system. The occasional relay bid everyone makes (some more than others) is not that frequent, so this does not describe the system.

What is frequency here though? The auction 2♣ - 2♦; 2M - 2NT is certainly not common but, if you play 2NT that way, it is probably one of the more common 2♣ auctions, particularly if you exclude Opener's balanced hands (which have their own relay continuation with 3♣!). So on that measure, this would absolutely qualify on frequency grounds.

[mycroft]

Zel, if you consider those auctions as common as "The expected path after a game force is established is for one player to relay out the other's hand shape, exceptions happen for exceptional reasons", then yes, I do. Is there a problem?

Note, obviously I don't think that one or two specific sequences that are relay sequences to make a relay system. But (again, handwaving), where the line is isn't clear, and (apart from regulatory purposes) doesn't need to be. People know what people mean.