[theo_16]

Why is the one you voted for better in your opinion?

[DozyDom]

Feature ask, for me, falls victim to a very simple problem - it's worthless. I've just opened a weak two; how many features do you think I've got? Feature ask will not tell partner enough about my hand's overall strength or my suit quality, and where I don't have a feature (which will be the vast majority of the time) it won't tell partner about my strength outside the suit either. Ogust manages all three, every time - it just fails to tell partner how that outside strength is distributed.

[spotlight7]

theo_16, on 2019-April-22, 03:28, said:

Why is the one you voted for better in your opinion?

I use transfers starting at 2N*=clubs. It allows partner to run from 2M.


If I return to your suit next, it invites game with values in the transfer suit.


A bid of 3M-1 invites game.

[steve2005]

DozyDom, on 2019-April-22, 04:14, said:

Feature ask will not tell partner enough about my hand's overall strength or my suit quality, and where I don't have a feature (which will be the vast majority of the time) it won't tell partner about my strength outside the suit either.

In the feature I learned you only show a feature if in upper range.
Of course it shows your strength outside the preempt suit!? How often do you have more than one feature?

[fromageGB]

spotlight7, on 2019-April-22, 06:58, said:

A bid of 2M-1 invites game.

The sequence 2♥ (p) 2♦ to invite a heart game is a great idea, but most opponents will be calling the director.

[apollo1201]

fromageGB, on 2019-April-22, 08:58, said:

The sequence 2♥ (p) 2♦ to invite a heart game is a great idea, but most opponents will be calling the director.

🤣🤣

[FelicityR]

Using the Multi 2♦ together with a weak 2♥/2♠ opening bid gives more flexibility to a 2NT responder. Knowing that partner has a good/bad suit and/or features from his/her initial bid makes life easier. And it also allows the 2♠ bid to be used as another relay with the Multi too.

[apollo1201]

I think feature is good when playing pretty disciplined weak 2´s. And above D as well to ascertain 3NT (more likely game than 5D), but I don’t play weak 2 in D.

However, to increase frequency of openings (resulting in opponents disturbed more often), I became less disciplined and switched to Ogust.

And when I play Multi w/ another partner, we just have good/bad overall assessment of the hand, as we need to distinguish suit😅

[DozyDom]

steve2005, on 2019-April-22, 08:44, said:

In the feature I learned you only show a feature if in upper range.
Of course it shows your strength outside the preempt suit!? How often do you have more than one feature?

Either you include random garbage queens as "features", or your entire system falls apart because you need too many bids. Neither of those is an acceptable option for me. When I respond to an Ogust enquiry and show that my strength lies outside the suit, my partner will expect me to have scattered nonsense and that's what I will have the vast majority of the time.

[Cyberyeti]

We actually merely show length rather than features, but we opened some massively unusual weak 2s.

[pescetom]

apollo1201, on 2019-April-22, 13:16, said:

I think feature is good when playing pretty disciplined weak 2´s. And above D as well to ascertain 3NT (more likely game than 5D), but I don’t play weak 2 in D.

However, to increase frequency of openings (resulting in opponents disturbed more often), I became less disciplined and switched to Ogust.

DozyDom, on 2019-April-22, 13:34, said:

Either you include random garbage queens as "features", or your entire system falls apart because you need too many bids. Neither of those is an acceptable option for me. When I respond to an Ogust enquiry and show that my strength lies outside the suit, my partner will expect me to have scattered nonsense and that's what I will have the vast majority of the time.

I agree with both and don't want to be over disciplined, so with partners capable of remembering a relay I play Ogust as the lesser evil.

We also play 4♣ as RKCB over all weak twos, which is more often a bonus than a downfall. Some others play the same bid as "Preempt RKCB" with replies modified to take account of the low number of possible keycards, but my analysis and experience is that overall it makes sense to avoid the extra memory load by simply using standard replies and 1430.

[Tramticket]

We now play a multi instead of weak-twos in my main partnership. If I do play weak-twos, I am happy playing either OGUST or features - both have pros and cons.

If playing OGUST, I also like to play a change of suit as forcing.

[rookil]

theo_16, on 2019-April-22, 03:28, said:

Why is the one you voted for better in your opinion?

I called it other but what I prefer is referred to as "modified" Ogust. Several of the people I play with like to use weak 2's that might be a five card suit so our responses to 2NT after a 2♥/♠are minors=5 card suit, majors=6 card suit and red suits='stop' i.e.weak, black suits='go' strong. I.e. 3♣=strong w/5 card suit etc.

Responses to 2NT after 2♦are: 3♣=strong with unspecified 3 card major, 3♦=any weak hand, 3♥/♠=four cards in the other major and 3NT=strong w/no major.

These responses allow expanded distribution and, as some have said, 'less discipline' .

[miamijd]

rookil, on 2019-April-23, 08:38, said:

I called it other but what I prefer is referred to as "modified" Ogust. Several of the people I play with like to use weak 2's that might be a five card suit so our responses to 2NT after a 2♥/♠are minors=5 card suit, majors=6 card suit and red suits='stop' i.e.weak, black suits='go' strong. I.e. 3♣=strong w/5 card suit etc.

Responses to 2NT after 2♦are: 3♣=strong with unspecified 3 card major, 3♦=any weak hand, 3♥/♠=four cards in the other major and 3NT=strong w/no major.

These responses allow expanded distribution and, as some have said, 'less discipline' .

If you often open 5-card suits with a weak 2 (not something I like, but many do), there is a version of Ogust that is a little like this only better, I think. 3C is a five-card suit; after that, a 3D bid asks how good (H is bad, spades is medium, 3NT is good). 3D, 3H, and 3S are six-card suits, in order, bad, medium, and good.

Otherwise, there are several playable treatments. Feature, Ogust, and asking for shortness with a good hand all generally work OK.

Cheers,
mike

[spotlight7]

fromageGB, on 2019-April-22, 08:58, said:

The sequence 2♥ (p) 2♦ to invite a heart game is a great idea, but most opponents will be calling the director.

Fumble fingers. 3M-1 is the invite.

[rookil]

miamijd, on 2019-April-23, 09:24, said:

If you often open 5-card suits with a weak 2 (not something I like, but many do), there is a version of Ogust that is a little like this only better, I think. 3C is a five-card suit; after that, a 3D bid asks how good (H is bad, spades is medium, 3NT is good). 3D, 3H, and 3S are six-card suits, in order, bad, medium, and good.

Otherwise, there are several playable treatments. Feature, Ogust, and asking for shortness with a good hand all generally work OK.

Cheers,
mike

I also like this better. Thanks

[TylerE]

rookil, on 2019-April-23, 08:38, said:

I called it other but what I prefer is referred to as "modified" Ogust. Several of the people I play with like to use weak 2's that might be a five card suit so our responses to 2NT after a 2♥/♠are minors=5 card suit, majors=6 card suit and red suits='stop' i.e.weak, black suits='go' strong. I.e. 3♣=strong w/5 card suit etc.

An easy improvement is available here:

3♣ = Any 5 bagger, now 3♦ is a range ask: 3♥ = min, 3♠ = med 3NT = max
3♦ = 6, minimum
3♥ = 6, med
3♠ = 6, max
3NT = 6, AKQxxx

[TylerE]

rookil, on 2019-April-23, 08:38, said:

I called it other but what I prefer is referred to as "modified" Ogust. Several of the people I play with like to use weak 2's that might be a five card suit so our responses to 2NT after a 2♥/♠are minors=5 card suit, majors=6 card suit and red suits='stop' i.e.weak, black suits='go' strong. I.e. 3♣=strong w/5 card suit etc.

An easy improvement is available here:

3♣ = Any 5 bagger, now 3♦ is a range ask: 3♥ = min, 3♠ = med 3NT = max
3♦ = 6, minimum
3♥ = 6, med
3♠ = 6, max
3NT = 6, AKQxxx

[miamijd]

spotlight7, on 2019-April-22, 06:58, said:

I use transfers starting at 2N*=clubs. It allows partner to run from 2M.


If I return to your suit next, it invites game with values in the transfer suit.


A bid of 3M-1 invites game.

This structure is useful only if a weak two of a major bid is doubled by the next player. Now you can play transfer responses, with the suit transferred to either being a suit OR a lead with support for the opener's suit. For example, partner opens 2S, next hand doubles, and you have:

Jxx
xx
AQJ
xxxxx

There's a very good chance that LHO is going to declare 4H. But instead of bidding 3S, now you can bid 3C - transfer to diamonds - suggesting a diamond lead. If the opponents pass, you'll just bid 3S over partner's 3D bid, no harm done. If LHO bids 4H, then partner leads a diamond, and now you have a good shot to set. If you don't show the diamond lead, partner might have

AKxxxx
xx
xxx
xx

and now if he lays down a spade honor and spades are 3-1, the opponents will likely make, as dummy is likely to have 4 clubs to declarer's two, and there goes declarer's third-round diamond loser.

Cheers,
mike

[msjennifer]

Sir,we do not use weak twos for five card suits.We use 2NT as OGUST. The five steps therein provide the full nature of openers hand and appropriate contract is enabled.After the reply to ogust we start cue bidding.With a strong GF hand responder uses a bid of 3C to ask opener if he has a singleton outside.(2NT remains Ogust as usual).This singleton ask is essentially necessary if responder holds xxx in an outside suit.