Help
I've always played 1d 1s// 2d 3C as clubs is artificial showing gf and 5 spades. Do others play this and what do you call this convention? My current partner says this bid doesn't exist so i am now perplexed. Any advice or opinions on whether this is a valid bid?
With this bid than 1d 1s// 2d 2h shows 5 spades and 4 hearts but is NOT forcing... do others play this way?
of course the standard nmf over NT still holds... this is just in addition when a minor is rebid by opener
Thank you
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new minor forcing over opener rebidding minor
#2
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Posted 2020-July-18, 21:04
The term "new minor forcing" only properly applies to the situation after a 1nt rebid. Other situations are more the generic "new suit by responder is forcing" general default over non-1nt rebids.
A fair number of people play that 1c-1s-2c-2h is NF, with 2d as artificial GF. Known as "Bourke relay". 2d is low enough that one can mostly manage things reasonably well.
But the 1d-1s-2d is quite a bit different, because 3c is much more space consuming and it is very difficult (impossible?) to disentangle things. Consider how you are going to show 5-5 majors invite, 5-5 majors GF, 5-4 majors, 6-4 majors, spades and clubs? If no spade fit, how will partner know whether you need hearts stopped or clubs stopped? It's much easier when you can divide your GF hands into both 2h and 3c, 2H can be F1 only. The normal way, 2h and 3c are both quasi-natural, might just be a fragment.
If you want to find heart fit on weak hands, I would suggest instead looking into "reverse Flannery by responder" convention, which gives up whatever your 2H jump shift is currently used for.
Another useful twist to consider is using 1m-1M-2m-3m as forcing (https://www.bridgewo...erica/TSAR.html)
A fair number of people play that 1c-1s-2c-2h is NF, with 2d as artificial GF. Known as "Bourke relay". 2d is low enough that one can mostly manage things reasonably well.
But the 1d-1s-2d is quite a bit different, because 3c is much more space consuming and it is very difficult (impossible?) to disentangle things. Consider how you are going to show 5-5 majors invite, 5-5 majors GF, 5-4 majors, 6-4 majors, spades and clubs? If no spade fit, how will partner know whether you need hearts stopped or clubs stopped? It's much easier when you can divide your GF hands into both 2h and 3c, 2H can be F1 only. The normal way, 2h and 3c are both quasi-natural, might just be a fragment.
If you want to find heart fit on weak hands, I would suggest instead looking into "reverse Flannery by responder" convention, which gives up whatever your 2H jump shift is currently used for.
Another useful twist to consider is using 1m-1M-2m-3m as forcing (https://www.bridgewo...erica/TSAR.html)
#3
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 14,212
- Joined: 2009-July-13
- Location:England
Posted 2020-July-20, 03:01
Stephen Tu, on 2020-July-18, 21:04, said:
The term "new minor forcing" only properly applies to the situation after a 1nt rebid. Other situations are more the generic "new suit by responder is forcing" general default over non-1nt rebids.
A fair number of people play that 1c-1s-2c-2h is NF, with 2d as artificial GF. Known as "Bourke relay". 2d is low enough that one can mostly manage things reasonably well.
But the 1d-1s-2d is quite a bit different, because 3c is much more space consuming and it is very difficult (impossible?) to disentangle things. Consider how you are going to show 5-5 majors invite, 5-5 majors GF, 5-4 majors, 6-4 majors, spades and clubs? If no spade fit, how will partner know whether you need hearts stopped or clubs stopped? It's much easier when you can divide your GF hands into both 2h and 3c, 2H can be F1 only. The normal way, 2h and 3c are both quasi-natural, might just be a fragment.
If you want to find heart fit on weak hands, I would suggest instead looking into "reverse Flannery by responder" convention, which gives up whatever your 2H jump shift is currently used for.
Another useful twist to consider is using 1m-1M-2m-3m as forcing (https://www.bridgewo...erica/TSAR.html)
A fair number of people play that 1c-1s-2c-2h is NF, with 2d as artificial GF. Known as "Bourke relay". 2d is low enough that one can mostly manage things reasonably well.
But the 1d-1s-2d is quite a bit different, because 3c is much more space consuming and it is very difficult (impossible?) to disentangle things. Consider how you are going to show 5-5 majors invite, 5-5 majors GF, 5-4 majors, 6-4 majors, spades and clubs? If no spade fit, how will partner know whether you need hearts stopped or clubs stopped? It's much easier when you can divide your GF hands into both 2h and 3c, 2H can be F1 only. The normal way, 2h and 3c are both quasi-natural, might just be a fragment.
If you want to find heart fit on weak hands, I would suggest instead looking into "reverse Flannery by responder" convention, which gives up whatever your 2H jump shift is currently used for.
Another useful twist to consider is using 1m-1M-2m-3m as forcing (https://www.bridgewo...erica/TSAR.html)
Or you can play 1♦-1♠-2♦-2♥ as your enquiry with 2N showing hearts.
#4
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Posted 2020-July-20, 07:49
The suit « stuck » to the repeated minor is called (where I live) 3rd suit forcing. So 2H does not promise H necessarily and is not GF. Can be done with 9+ (opener can still have 16-17 in this sequence, 1(34)5 or 6-cd suit not good enough to jump on). When you agree to this:
- then 3C has to be natural-ish, GF, 5+S, C stopped or real suit
- weak hands with 54M pass or play reverse Flannery as suggested
- then 3C has to be natural-ish, GF, 5+S, C stopped or real suit
- weak hands with 54M pass or play reverse Flannery as suggested
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