[DComedian]

Hi, I'm a relative newbie (well returning to the game after nearly 40 years!)

I had this hand last night, and wondered what I should bid after West bids 2 spades? Neither side was vulnerable.

I think my options are pass, double and 3H? Thoughts anybody?

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PS Apologies if I've posted this in the wrong topic heading...as I said, I'm a newbie

[akwoo]

This depends on your partnership agreements/tendencies.

The 12-14 1N opening system I play is Kaplan-Sheinwold-derived, not Acol, and the tendency in K-S is for pass to include 15-16 balanced, which suggests bidding 3H with this hand, though with such a good defensive hand, pass could work.

OTOH, it seems to me from this forum that the tendency in Acol is for double to include 15-16 balanced, which suggests you pass with this hand. Note that, if double includes 15+ balanced, then pass implies an unbalanced hand and therefore at least a 5th heart.

In this auction, where responder has already shown some values, it really doesn't matter much which way you play, but there is consistency with the rest of the system to consider. (And, as for which way is better for the rest of the system, each has its pluses and minuses; if there's a difference it's that one way is better on 3% of boards and the other is better on 2.5%, so you should just play the way that's more intuitive for your partnership.)

[manudude03]

I would just pass here. I prefer 3H to show a better hand than this and double is a completely different hand (think something like xxx AKJxx AKx xx)

[akwoo]

Wow I was unclear up above.

I would prefer

Pass shows xxx AKJxx AKx xx
3H shows x AKxxxx Kxx Qxx
Double shows x KQxxx Axxx Kxx (you pass partner's 3C/D/H) OR any number of stronger hands (you bid over partner's 3C/D/H).

This is different from what manudude prefers, and I don't think one scheme is clearly better than the other.

Under my scheme, I think your hand is closer to 3H than pass, but it's not obvious.

[helene_t]

3♥ is probably forcing so the disciplined choice is pass. Partner will often double and then you can bid 3♥.

[Douglas43]

Welcome DComedian hope you find the forum useful.

I would pass "nothing more to say for now". We have opened and responded at the two level, so partner won't sell out to 2S not vulnerable at pairs. Partner can double / bid 2NT/3C /3D /3H - whatever their choice, you will be better informed. Second choice is 3H as I have got 6 good hearts, but I'd like a bit more for that.

As a footnote, a pass pretty well guarantees five+ hearts, in the style I play. Did not open 1NT, not enough extra strength to double, and with 4441 I would open a minor. Hence not a balanced hand, and has 5+ hearts. (If you open 1H with exactly 4=4=4=1 this inference is not reliable).

Akwoo makes an important point about differences in style between North American systems and Acol. In another post I had a interesting exchange about nuances in an auction as simple as 1H-1S-2S (can be 3 card support in the UK but this is not, I am told, usual in North America).

[DavidKok]

One 'expert solution' is the Good/Bad NT here. But in the absence of that agreement I'd pass, as others have also suggested.

[gordontd]

 Douglas43, on 2021-March-11, 03:41, said:

As a footnote, a pass pretty well guarantees five+ hearts, in the style I play[size="2"].

Wouldn't you pass with 4-4 in the majors?

[Cyberyeti]

 gordontd, on 2021-March-11, 07:09, said:

Wouldn't you pass with 4-4 in the majors?

You opened 1N or if too strong rebid 3N, with a 4441 it was assumed you would have opened 1m. if you have a 16 count with 4 hearts and 4 small spades is the only arguable case.

[gordontd]

 Cyberyeti, on 2021-March-11, 07:28, said:

You opened 1N or if too strong rebid 3N, with a 4441 it was assumed you would have opened 1m. if you have a 16 count with 4 hearts and 4 small spades is the only arguable case.

I'd pass with most of the strong balanced hands of this type, expecting to get more at this vulnerability if partner re-opens with a double than from 3NT. Don't you ever get dealt 15-counts?

[Cyberyeti]

 gordontd, on 2021-March-11, 10:24, said:

I'd pass with most of the strong balanced hands of this type, expecting to get more at this vulnerability if partner re-opens with a double than from 3NT. Don't you ever get dealt 15-counts?

Yes but partner has 10 for the 2/1 so I tend to bid game rather than double an 8 card fit at the 2 level unless I think I might have 3 trump tricks. Also 2N for us would be GF and not always balanced so pass is 100% less than 15.