[Cyberyeti]

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I will give partner's hand later, double, pass or 3♠ ?

[nullve]

X

[mycroft]

I hate this. I have a weaker hand than my partner will expect (remember my agreement on actions over preempts with most of my partners is "sound"), but partner isn't going to be able to protect me here. And my shape is "perfect", but also ugly.

I'm doubling and hating it; 3♠ is unilateral given that I'm overbidding my hand already (again, according to my agreements), so I really won't feel comfortable doubling over 4♣-p-p. I hope we don't end up playing 3♥ in the Moysian with a 5-3 spade fit; I hope we don't end up playing 4 with a minimum game raise with non-zero wasted club values.

But Preempts Work™, and sometimes you have to make the best guess lie.

It will be interesting to hear the arguments for and against from Cyberyeti, who does not think this is weaker than partner will expect.

[Cyberyeti]

 mycroft, on 2022-October-05, 14:12, said:

I hate this. I have a weaker hand than my partner will expect (remember my agreement on actions over preempts with most of my partners is "sound"), but partner isn't going to be able to protect me here. And my shape is "perfect", but also ugly.

I'm doubling and hating it; 3♠ is unilateral given that I'm overbidding my hand already (again, according to my agreements), so I really won't feel comfortable doubling over 4♣-p-p. I hope we don't end up playing 3♥ in the Moysian with a 5-3 spade fit; I hope we don't end up playing 4 with a minimum game raise with non-zero wasted club values.

But Preempts Work™, and sometimes you have to make the best guess lie.

It will be interesting to hear the arguments for and against from Cyberyeti, who does not think this is weaker than partner will expect.

I think it's a close and interesting decision, the other hand causes a wrinkle you might not foresee.

[DavidKok]

I think double is better than 3♠ and pass is not an option. Also this hand is not a minimum for a double for me - all my points are working, and I've got the perfect shape with a spade over a fourth diamond. After doubling I'm happy to table the dummy no matter what partner chooses (or, if we end up defending, I'm happy I took my chances as early as possible).

[Cyberyeti]

 DavidKok, on 2022-October-05, 15:07, said:

I think double is better than 3♠ and pass is not an option. Also this hand is not a minimum for a double for me - all my points are working, and I've got the perfect shape with a spade over a fourth diamond. After doubling I'm happy to table the dummy no matter what partner chooses (or, if we end up defending, I'm happy I took my chances as early as possible).

Partner has a 3334 19 count with ♣Axxx and honours in all suits, any suggestions what he does now ? 5N ? 6N ?

Was dealt in practice, but this one is much more fun at MPs

[mycroft]

See, for every time that happens to me, there's another hand where West has the 3433 19-count.

I'm not sure how often West gets to X/XX at these colours. I don't know how much the extra Q/K I would prefer makes a difference (and of course, the hands where partner has a decent 8, 9-count...) Swings and roundabouts.

I agree, at MPs, where the Matchpoint Death Score is an option, this gets much more interesting.

But with the hand the way you wrote, if you can have a random shapely 12, you kind of have to tiptoe your way around slam. 4♣-4♠? The good news is that if the 19-count is worried about trump, "two with" is pretty much the best answer to hear.

[mikeh]

 Cyberyeti, on 2022-October-05, 15:31, said:

Partner has a 3334 19 count with ♣Axxx and honours in all suits, any suggestions what he does now ? 5N ? 6N ?

Was dealt in practice, but this one is much more fun at MPs

Tell me his hand, rather than his shape and hcp, and I’ll tell you what I think I’d do (obviously it’s impossible to be objective, knowing both hands, but I like to think I’d come close)

As for my call over 3C, double is clear. Channeling the late nige1, double = 100, 3S = 70 (because I’m feeling generous) and pass = 20.

[cherdano]

 mikeh, on 2022-October-05, 16:53, said:

Tell me his hand, rather than his shape and hcp, and I’ll tell you what I think I’d do (obviously it’s impossible to be objective, knowing both hands, but I like to think I’d come close)

As for my call over 3C, double is clear. Channeling the late nige1, double = 100, 3S = 70 (because I’m feeling generous) and pass = 20.

I agree, with just one minor correction. Nige1 would have given a score for 4♣!

[Cyberyeti]

 mikeh, on 2022-October-05, 16:53, said:

Tell me his hand, rather than his shape and hcp, and I’ll tell you what I think I’d do (obviously it’s impossible to be objective, knowing both hands, but I like to think I’d come close)

As for my call over 3C, double is clear. Channeling the late nige1, double = 100, 3S = 70 (because I’m feeling generous) and pass = 20.

AJx, Kxx, AKx, Axxx

The point is particularly at pairs, you actually want to be in spades if they're 3-2. There are 11 tricks in NT and no chance of 12 on a club lead on the actual layout (hearts 4-2), but 6♠ (or 4+2) will make easily ruffing the fourth heart high.

[michel444]

Double with 1 cards club and 12 HCP on a pre opening is to light.

pass maybe
3 ♠ ? how many trick i am going to lost ?
6 or more w/o help 1+ ♠ 2+ ♥ 2+ ♦ and 1♣
going down 2-3 giving oponet a gift of 200-300 point
let them play 3♣ +x
60+ X*20

[mikeh]

 Cyberyeti, on 2022-October-06, 01:28, said:

AJx, Kxx, AKx, Axxx

The point is particularly at pairs, you actually want to be in spades if they're 3-2. There are 11 tricks in NT and no chance of 12 on a club lead on the actual layout (hearts 4-2), but 6♠ (or 4+2) will make easily ruffing the fourth heart high.

Not all 19 counts are equal. This is a huge hand, marred only by the sterile shape. While I do try not to hang partner…..the player with club shortness strains to act so I’m aware his hand may not be ideal….I’m driving to some slam. I start with 4C

Over 4C, doubler is to bid his cheapest 4 card suit….finding a fit is our first priority…..but I’d bid 4S here and that should show 5. Showing the 5th card takes priority. This is very different from auctions such as (4S) x (P) 4N, where often we are in survival mode and so we bid the cheapest suit we don’t mind partner passing.

After x then 4C, we’re going hunting, not scrambling.

Over 4S, all roads lead to slam.

Personally, I’d just blast 6S. I’m sure there are pairs who can find grand opposite KQxxx AQJx Qxx x but I’m not one of them.notice how keycard can’t help find the critical red queens. Also note that it’s dangerous for advancer to start cuebidding. After all, how would one advance the double with strong slam interest and a one suiter in diamonds?

[Cyberyeti]

 mikeh, on 2022-October-06, 15:43, said:

Not all 19 counts are equal. This is a huge hand, marred only by the sterile shape. While I do try not to hang partner…..the player with club shortness strains to act so I’m aware his hand may not be ideal….I’m driving to some slam. I start with 4C

Over 4C, doubler is to bid his cheapest 4 card suit….finding a fit is our first priority…..but I’d bid 4S here and that should show 5. Showing the 5th card takes priority. This is very different from auctions such as (4S) x (P) 4N, where often we are in survival mode and so we bid the cheapest suit we don’t mind partner passing.

After x then 4C, we’re going hunting, not scrambling.

Over 4S, all roads lead to slam.

Personally, I’d just blast 6S. I’m sure there are pairs who can find grand opposite KQxxx AQJx Qxx x but I’m not one of them.notice how keycard can’t help find the critical red queens. Also note that it’s dangerous for advancer to start cuebidding. After all, how would one advance the double with strong slam interest and a one suiter in diamonds?

This approach works really well if partner has 5 spades, if partner has a 5 card red suit or is 4441, I'm not sure how you disentangle the auction. With 5red, 5N at some point may do it, but 4441 partner is going to struggle to believe you don't have a 4th card in any of his suits and I suspect you'll end up in a bad 6N a fair bit of the time (KQ10x, AJxx, Qxxx, J for example).

[sfi]

 Cyberyeti, on 2022-October-07, 01:58, said:

I suspect you'll end up in a bad 6N a fair bit of the time (KQ10x, AJxx, Qxxx, J for example).

This may not be a minimum. Just for lols, I present the hand my RHO balanced with over my 3H preempt this afternoon:

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At vul vs not, no less.

Not my choice, but he's played in more Bermuda Bowl semifinals than I have, so who am I to argue?

[Cyberyeti]

 sfi, on 2022-October-07, 03:09, said:

This may not be a minimum. Just for lols, I present the hand my RHO balanced with over my 3H preempt this afternoon:

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At vul vs not, no less.

Not my choice, but he's played in more Bermuda Bowl semifinals than I have, so who am I to argue?

Balancing with this is a lot more reasonable than pre-balancing with it