[croquetfan]

Feel free to disagree, but I find the bidders challenge a bit lopsided. The hands are chosen to be interesting and they certainly are. Very often they are interesting because a slam was on and partner had just the right cards for an easy make. Very few good scores are made by taking the pessimistic view and often very good experts find themselves in a tiny majority.
This is not sour grapes, I do well at these events, but some of the most interesting hands can be where clever players find a way to avoid getting too high. If someone has done some statistics to show that I am wrong I would be interested to see that.

[Hanoi5]

croquetfan, on 2023-February-16, 21:31, said:

Feel free to disagree, but I find the bidders challenge a bit lopsided. The hands are chosen to be interesting and they certainly are. Very often they are interesting because a slam was on and partner had just the right cards for an easy make. Very few good scores are made by taking the pessimistic view and often very good experts find themselves in a tiny majority.
This is not sour grapes, I do well at these events, but some of the most interesting hands can be where clever players find a way to avoid getting too high. If someone has done some statistics to show that I am wrong I would be interested to see that.

The interesting thing about the challenge is the comments you can read from the experts. They explain why they prefer certain action, and usually more than one expert will point at details you might have not even thought about. Last month, for example, there was:

♠A8xx
♥QJx
♦AKx
♣753

And the auction had been:

2♠ - 3♥ - 3♠ - ???

Most experts chose to bid only game. Yes, partner intervened over a weak bid, but most of the 4♥ bidders claimed that the 5 level was not safe. This is not a beginner's concept and I bet many people knew about it from reading it in their comments.

If an éxpert' chooses the low road, then you can feel represented when you underbid. If most experts decide to bid higher thn you, pay attention to their reasons.

And I don't think results always dictate the scores in the challenge. Sometimes the experts will be very optimistic and the real hand proves to be a disappointment. Just as in real life

You can check the comments by Marc and me on YouTube before deciding what to bid: https://youtu.be/DyZpAlb8fU4

[Wiied]

I actually agree that the bidders challenge is lopsided, especially for the hands that need to be bid after opps preemptive openings. I will use the same example from the previous reply.

♠A8xx
♥QJx
♦AKx
♣753

2♠ - 3♥ - 3♠ - ???

The first question here is "with what hands my p will or won't intervene on level 3 on the 2nd hand?" If my p is not super aggressive player the hand needs to be solid, otherwise bid 3h is a mistake. So your partners style is a very important unknown.

Next question is if we take all possible hands with which my p bids 3h what are our chances to 6h and what is the probability that already level 5 is not safe? In my understanding this probability to fall in 5h hardly reaches 20% so investigating slam is not a mistake

My biggest problem with the bidders challenge is total subjectivity of "right answers" in the times where it is pretty simple to give fully objective answer using the generator. While it is indeed interesting to hear experts comments, I would like to see in which % of the hands that fit the bidding (and p is not crazy by bidding 3h:)) we have only 4h, in what % of hands we have 5h and in what % we have 6h. And then we will see what the right approach (close the bidding at 4h, or investigate slam possibilities) is from math point of view.

[Huibertus]

croquetfan, on 2023-February-16, 21:31, said:

♠A8xx
♥QJx
♦AKx
♣753

2♠ - 3♥ - 3♠ - ???

Within the context of a bidding challenge the interesting bit in the experts discussion IMO is NOT if the 5 level is safe or if this should be enough for slam. In this situation sometimes partner will stretch and 5 or slam might not make. 6♥ will be a lay down contract often enough to NEED to investigate it. Take a perfectly normal ♥ overcall of ♠ x; ♥ AKXXXX, ♦ QXX, ♣ KQJ...

The point here is what agreement do you have to show a !h raise WITH serious interest in slam as well as the question which bids set up a forcing pass and which bids don't (or even might suggest a safe). 4♥, Double and potentially 3NT should be available to raise to 4♥, and that is the area contenders may learn from the experts comments and improve their partnership's game.