[AL78]

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EW are playing 5CM. Your call?

[jillybean]

2♣

[TMorris]

Pass

[mikeh]

Even thinking about bidding is an overbid

Far too many players think that it’s against some set of rules, which I’ve never seen, to pass with an opening hand once an opp has opened the bidding.

Yes, of course 2C could work out brilliantly, but it’s that fact that misleads people into unwise actions…’look…had I bid 2C, on this board we’d get a great result’.

[akwoo]

I don't think bidding is terrible at MPs - switch my majors and I'd bid.

But I'm passing.

[jillybean]

Is bidding opposite a passed partner really that bad? I'm sure you will tell me why it is terrible.

I'd like to bid a 12-14 1nt, but with that unavailable, 2C it is. Sure, I would prefer more solid and a 6th club but seeing the minimums some players open on, I'm having my bid.

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2023-May-12, 15:41, said:

Is bidding opposite a passed partner really that bad? I'm sure you will tell me why it is terrible.

I'd like to bid a 12-14 1nt, but with that unavailable, 2C it is. Sure, I would prefer more solid and a 6th club but seeing the minimums some players open on, I'm having my bid.

Of course 2C could work out. That’s why people keep bidding on garbage. So they don’t have their values? They get away with it for numerous reasons

The opps don’t know how to catch them speeding….either they forget to double or they blow the defence

Partner somehow knows not to take you seriously or is incapable of bidding properly so passes when it’s clear to bid

The cards lie well for you

Me? I try to bid as if I’m playing against strong players, since deliberately bidding badly, in order to take advantage of weak opps, isn’t something I enjoy plus it leads to bad habits, which may bite me when I do play strong opps. I also usually play with expert partners who will most definitely not expect a 2C overcall when half my hand is in a short suit, I have great defence, and a weak, short suit.

Do I ‘want’ to bid? Yes. Do I think that bidding is good bridge? No.

Give me a sixth club, which is equivalent, in terms of offence to an extra trick and, in terms of defence, makes my hand a little weaker, then I bid. The difference may seem unimportant but, to me, it’s extremely important.

It’s like when I am asked by less experienced players about overcalling a strong 1N. The other day my LHO held 17 hcp and AK10xx in clubs. She bid.

We were going -200 or -300 had she passed. We went +90 when we were able to get to 2D on our 4-4 fit. We got 100% of the mps. My advice to her was that one should NEVER make a one-suited overcall on a 5 card suit. So here,while I won’t say never bid 2C on five…rarely bid 2C on five and never without a good suit.

Edit: one reason the game is so hard to get good at is because bad bridge wins often….just not as often as does good bridge. The weaker the opponents, the more often one gets away with, or even gets great results, from bad bridge. Which makes it easy to think that one is doing something right.

If your goal is to be in as many auctions as possible, and to rely on your opps being weak players, go for it.

If your goal is to one day compete with strong players, then learning discipline is a good way to start. Become someone known by partners to always have your values…that doesn’t mean become ultra conservative, btw.

Edit. On reflection, I’m probably overstating my case. I think that, if you polled a range of experts, you’d get some votes for overcalling. I wouldn’t but I tend to the conservative side in these situations. One reason is that I’m primarily an imp player and 2m is the easiest contract to double and defend. We make it, we get 180 compared to maybe 90 or 50/100. We go down, especially two or more, and it’s likely a disaster. If we’re going down only two, I’d bet they can’t make game.

Plus, if 2C is passed out, my sense is that we’re often -200 since we probably can’t get to dummy and RHO has club length or strength, for not reopening.

[AL78]

This hand was held by my LHO, I was East who opened and LHO did overcall 2♣ on this hand. I would like to say we got multiples of a hundred out of them, but what really happened was he found a partner with five card support to the king, so we ended up defending 3♣ and let an overtrick through when neither of us attacked the diamonds in time, and declarer got one away on the ♠J.

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The full traveller:

3♣S+1 +130
3♣S+1 +130
2♠E+1 -140
2♥E+1 -140

I knew immediately that declarer had a poor suit and must be overcalling vulnerable with a good opening hand, which meant I wasn't sure if it was safe to attack diamonds, and partner didn't find a diamond lead when in either. How do I know when in with the club ace?

I did question the wisdom of overcalling vulnerable with such a poor suit but these two are amongst the strongest pairs at the club and regularly do well so who am I to question?

[sfi]

I'm unsure why West felt the need to keep the heart fit a secret throughout the auction.

[smerriman]

AL78, on 2023-May-12, 16:32, said:

I knew immediately that declarer had a poor suit and must be overcalling vulnerable with a good opening hand, which meant I wasn't sure if it was safe to attack diamonds, and partner didn't find a diamond lead when in either. How do I know when in with the club ace?

What were the actual tricks? Assuming a heart lead, won by declarer who knocks out the ace of trumps, you switch to a spade, declarer finesses, and then your partner didn't play diamonds? Feels like they no choice at that point.

[mikeh]

I hope the paramedics were able to revive west who appears to have lost consciousness. Personally, I like the double but ONLY if I were intending to bid hearts next (assuming partner doesn’t bid spades). I think the hand, with its shape, is not quite good enough for a limit raise but too good for 2H, hence I’m happy to be able to defer my heart support. But passing 3C is beyond bizarre, playing 5 card majors.

[apollo1201]

Bridge is already a difficult game playing 2 against 2. But 1 against 3…

[mycroft]

If you're playing 4cM, I see the double. But then I double 3♣. You have to be able to find 5-3 major fits somehow.

Playing 5cM, West failing to show hearts ever is a travesty. I can see double (but as mentioned, only if I was planning on bidding hearts next). I can even see 3♣ - it's an overbid with only 3 small hearts, but it's still better than showing spades and no hearts. I can see 2♥, but that doesn't really describe my hand either (except "in competition, support with support").

I see this hand and another, where "they have a fit, we have a fit, don't let them play cheaply" is violated. Now I understand this club; you compete and turn -170 into -620 because "oh I have a bit more, I'll bid 3" and "oh I have a bit more, I'll bid 4 on the hand I passed 2 with". But minors don't have quite those issues.

OTOH, on this hand you're likely to go -130 anyway when the 5 card suit raises to 4; and you're not really going to win against pairs who happily let them play 2-of-a-major-fit (because they, too, have learned that -170 scores better than -620) even if you just push at 3. But that's resulting; partnership says "if you know you have a fit, and haven't told partner, is it time to tell partner?" And with that West hand, the answer is "yes" (or, if partner could still have only 4 hearts, "there's a fit somewhere, partner, tell me where").