[Cyberyeti]

Gilithin, on 2023-August-20, 04:27, said:

The only special rule in the BBO Acol Club is that you should ask your opponents for permission if you want to play a non-Acol system. In reality, I can only think of 2 regular pairs that did this, both using Strong Club systems. Beyond this, rules are made by the players at the table. Multi is unusual mainly because most pairs are pick-ups - in the default version, this hand would qualify for it though. I cannot remember seeing a Mini-Multi in over 20 years unless it was bid by me (or my partner). One thing I will say is that things are gradually changing. 20 years ago Benji (or Reverse) was the default 2 bid structure; now the profiles are roughly equally split with the default being 2 Weaks. You might compliment your Norfolk club on how far ahead of the curve they are regarding bidding theory!

We almost never see strong 2s these days (we actually play them in 4th), many of our pairs switched to multi a long time ago, and the rest are coming out of beginners classes where I think locally 3 weak is being taught but not sure.

[thepossum]

Amusing followup for Mike - still not much help since I just tweaked the parameters on my old Sim - so irrelevant to Mike really - I had just started the Sim yesterday afternoon when we had a crisis and accidentally left it running. I had to kill it this morning. It had only managed to find 8 hands 5 made 4H and 1 made 3NT - but not relevant at all. No memory left. Nothing much else was working etc All of them seemed to have a singleton Ace of clubs and would have been opened 2NT or 2C

[DavidKok]

I think 1♦-(3♣)-P-(P); 3NT denies a balanced hand, which would also make the simulation results not immediately relevant. Rather, partner's choice to bid 3NT instead of double shows long (hopefully running) diamonds and possible lack of tolerance for a major suit. I'm prepared to guess which one it might be.

[mikeh]

thepossum, on 2023-August-20, 03:55, said:

Hi Mike
Just wasted 4 hours trying to think how to respond but running out of time. Deleted several drafts already. I literally have no time

Will get back to you. Complicated

I'm not ignoring and you and giving the respect of wanting to respond. All the details are in a file but I feel like I am in a courtroom

I don't want to unnecessarily distract the group or discussion either. Hope everyone understands. Risky strategy though

For some of us and some posts and some situations and some people there is no safe action. Not everyone would understand that either. Its like an infinite process and still ongoing. So hopefully I do not have to enter this thread again

But I have an answer to the first phrase. I am sure you may choose different parameters for your sim than I did for mine. Why me??
EDIT But in further response I think it is a waste of my time because it takes all day to even get a few hands - I am sensitive to Mike's constraints and almost all the hands that make either game in my original sim would be excluded. I honestly don't think my original sim was worth the attention Mike gave to it. Sorry I don't have the time. I don't have to justify some arbitrary sim to anyone and risk unnecessary further argument over anything and to play petty power and ego games. But I stand by my results from my parameters in my original sim - all of which would be excluded Do you know how many unnecessary hours of stress and anxiety feeling I need to respond at all already. Please be a bit more considerate asking stuff like that. I could easily write you an in depth report on different simulations using various parameters discussed above But why waste all our time on such petty irreevances. Regard all that wasted time and stress as respect. And in all seriousness I made a casual relaxed social contribution to a hobby forum and have huge serious stuff to deal with in my life. Sorry. You take your profession very serkiously and so do I so challenging me in such a way was rather unfair

You think I spent any significant time on your post? Commenting on your ‘sim’ took literally no longer than it took to type on my iPad, lol

The problem is that you lack the bridge knowledge needed to design sims. For example, I would expect at least 95% of good players to infer that 3N was based on long, strong diamonds, with some club length, including a stopper and likely either 2 or 3 clubs, with a hand that offers decent play for 8 tricks (occasionally a hand that offers decent play for 9 tricks, but one shouldn’t wait for such a holding in order to bid 3N….he shouldn’t bid on the assumption that partner has nothing of use) with the hope that responder will provide a modicum of values…a hope sadly misplaced on this hand but usually sound.

Since you don’t understand bidding very well (I know…you’ll think this is a personal attack rather than an observation based on many, many posts from you), it’s unsurprising that you can’t do a simulation properly. Nobody whose primary experience is playing with bots on BBO can possibly understand bidding in any meaningful way, and if you don’t accept that, that itself says everything anyone needs to know about your skill level.

It’s no crime to be ignorant on complex topics….there are far, far more areas of knowledge iin which I am ignorant than there are areas where I possess even a modicum of understanding. I don’t think that because I can’t design a computer chip, for example, that makes me an inferior being, lol.

I’ve known some very intelligent people who love the game but lack whatever is needed in order to have an aptitude for it….as long ago as the 1970s, at university, the smartest person I think I’ve ever met (a post-doc in nuclear engineering) was passionate about the game yet was utterly incompetent. So please don’t take it as a personal attack.

Instead, I urge upon you the sentiments allegedly expressed by a prominent physics professor at a major UK university….during a talk at a symposium, a visiting professor pointed out an error in the professor’s presentation. The professor immediately expressed gratitude….learning of his mistake and thus coming to a better understanding of the topic was what was important to him. I hope I’m not indulging in false hope when I suggest that, if you want to be seen as having anything of value to contribute, yo7 at least try to understand why and where you are mistaken.

[thepossum]

DavidKok, on 2023-August-22, 04:51, said:

I think 1♦-(3♣)-P-(P); 3NT denies a balanced hand, which would also make the simulation results not immediately relevant. Rather, partner's choice to bid 3NT instead of double shows long (hopefully running) diamonds and possible lack of tolerance for a major suit. I'm prepared to guess which one it might be.

Will try that if I have time

[thepossum]

mikeh, on 2023-August-22, 11:25, said:

You think I spent any significant time on your post? Commenting on your ‘sim’ took literally no longer than it took to type on my iPad, lol

The problem is that you lack the bridge knowledge needed to design sims. For example, I would expect at least 95% of good players to infer that 3N was based on long, strong diamonds, with some club length, including a stopper and likely either 2 or 3 clubs, with a hand that offers decent play for 8 tricks (occasionally a hand that offers decent play for 9 tricks, but one shouldn’t wait for such a holding in order to bid 3N….he shouldn’t bid on the assumption that partner has nothing of use) with the hope that responder will provide a modicum of values…a hope sadly misplaced on this hand but usually sound.

Since you don’t understand bidding very well (I know…you’ll think this is a personal attack rather than an observation based on many, many posts from you), it’s unsurprising that you can’t do a simulation properly. Nobody whose primary experience is playing with bots on BBO can possibly understand bidding in any meaningful way, and if you don’t accept that, that itself says everything anyone needs to know about your skill level.

It’s no crime to be ignorant on complex topics….there are far, far more areas of knowledge iin which I am ignorant than there are areas where I possess even a modicum of understanding. I don’t think that because I can’t design a computer chip, for example, that makes me an inferior being, lol.

I’ve known some very intelligent people who love the game but lack whatever is needed in order to have an aptitude for it….as long ago as the 1970s, at university, the smartest person I think I’ve ever met (a post-doc in nuclear engineering) was passionate about the game yet was utterly incompetent. So please don’t take it as a personal attack.

Instead, I urge upon you the sentiments allegedly expressed by a prominent physics professor at a major UK university….during a talk at a symposium, a visiting professor pointed out an error in the professor’s presentation. The professor immediately expressed gratitude….learning of his mistake and thus coming to a better understanding of the topic was what was important to him. I hope I’m not indulging in false hope when I suggest that, if you want to be seen as having anything of value to contribute, yo7 at least try to understand why and where you are mistaken.

You haven't changed yet have you mike - its getting personal - even when I try to show you respect

I would know more than most of the people who run sims

Why the nastiness. Haven't had a go for a while have you. So much for me showing you respect

It was a clear personal attack and troll yet again by you. Clearly personal yet again. Please stop. I have enough annoyinng people and issues to de al with in my life without this unncessary harassment on a Bridge forum. Go ahead showing your ignorance about me though. Go and see a ppsych. You need some help

I have spent hours even days trying to do justice to your complex query. Sims are not simple and reporting them to experts accurately and fairly is complex and time consuming. I am trained in it. My whole career. Doing analysis, models, consulting to experts

You and others have caused me no end of unnecessary upset and stress for years on here. You leave me aone for a while and pounce whenever you feel you have an opportunity. You gaslight me. You misrepresent me. Defame me

Time to back off and be nice and I may write you a long detailed professionally written report. Most Bridge professionals wouldn't have the stats knowledge to understand the limitations of sims anyway. With respect

O tried to be nice to you, despite the obvious attempt at provocation or a troll or an insult.I have had enough of you. Is there a block function

I have played bridge for 40+ years Mike.. Go an show your pathetic insecurities up against someone else. That's enough. I ask you to leave me alone. Life is hard
enough without unnecessary stress from the likes of you

Sorry for having to stand my ground and make a statement like this but I have to. Your constant attacks are seriously dangerous and need some kind of defence. I prefer not to have to make them - 6 or 7 years. You gave me a break for a while. Go and insult someone else. Not a professional like me. I give you credit for being one. Are you? Do you know what it means. I am respecting you as one

People like you cause problems for tp professionals like me on forums. You play up to ignoroamuses and pick on people you incorrectly think are a treat just because we know what we are talking about.

In case anyone wonders always at my typos you just wasted another 25 minutes of my life in a very distressed state writing another unnecessary defence.. I have asked you many time to stop doing it. I am asking again. How many times do I have to ask for an end to the personal attacks

I need to go. I have many big crises and many big fish to fry. This was supposed to be one of my happy places. Not sometimes. If you knew some of the big fish I have to deal with you would understand why your petty attacks cause me trouble

I should add that you seem to like the use of straw men along with all your ad homs and other misrepresentations

I made a casual little comment and ran a 10 second sim for a bit of fun. It took longer to run than to write. Just for a bit of fun and chat and you turn it some some kind of professional/academic ***** wagging contest. Sorrry I need to go. I have to see cancer doctor today. Too much stress. Be kind

But I refuse to answer all your straw men and other fallacious attacks - do you know an argument fallacy and what it means - maybe I know more about that than you too. Giving you too much credit

It is a social forum. Not a bridge modelling conference Mike. Some of us are highly competent and professional and respectful and like to have to have some fun occasionally. There are people who ruin that and cause personal and professional problems with such unfounded and personal attacks

I would have than enough credentials to present a detailed critique of Bridge modelling at a conference if I have time and I have humility in spades

[thepossum]

Dear Mike

If you ever laid off the attacks and bullying I would give you the respect of a decent analysis and response

Your attacking style causes unnecessary stress and burden of having to make unnecessary defence

I am a professional used to working with and consulting to professionals in countless fields

It's hard to do it with limited time and having to defend unnecessary and upsetting attacks

I intend to respond if you ever give me 5 minutes peace

Now sitting in a waiting room on extreme distress thanks to you and your behaviour

I have tried to respond to your criticism with respect and good humour twice and still get attacked. Those attacks cause ever increasing and detailed burden of response. Sentence after sentence

If anyone ever responds to a detailed professional criticism without taking their time I would suggest they could make errors. You think running analysis of any kind for experts is simple. At least some of us who do it are professional competent respectful and detailed but it takes time and doesn't need bullying

I will try to respond but at the moment genuinely don't have time to respond to every sentence. You place huge unnecessary burden on me. Many people do that instead of a simple interaction

Maybe also realise we all have different personality type and training in dealing with unnecessary personal attack. Not all of us are cold. Some have emotions and feelings. We also move on different circles where people don't tend to use ad hom so much. We also aren't used to dealing with them efficiently and promptly. It takes time and drafts. Lots of time to word it properly

I hope you understand. Maybe different cultures and professional circles

I will tell you how my cancer check goes
Seems the whole world wants to kill me, possibly through endless stress from year after year of attacks

I will further add, sitting down amongst other priorities, trying to think how to respond to your multiple attacks. The nature of your attacks is such as to even make that exercise a burden. Do you know the depth and breadth of all your attacks over the years, and the one above. How much burden of response you place just to address the nature of it. That is an unfair burden and attack in itself. A simple discussion on sims blown up like that

If I don't get back to you I am just too busy and too stressed with countless important matters. Take this as some kind of response and request not to make it worse. As far as I am concnerned I should be forced into the situation of dealing with that burden. Especially since I already and with good humour and humilty responded higher up the thread, and accepted your point that you would use a different sim to me. But I do not accept any of your vile insinuations against me personally or professionally. Hopefully everyone can leave it there until I either have time or die. I will not accept what is a vile professional attack from anyone Mike. It causes us all problems and we are obliged to respond which is unfair.

And if you and anyone wonders at why my responses seem sprawling or unstructured. That is the nature of dealing with such unreasonable attack incessanty. There is always more to say and I don't have a lifetime to structure it all up nicely

What could have been a nice respectful discussion about the auction and sims was lowered by you to a barrage of obnoxious personal and professional attack. Thats for any ignnoramuses who are taken in by your posts. And if anyone does me the decency of reading back they would read that clear acknowledgement and respect and allocation of a great deal of time and anxiety in paying you the respect of a response - ongoing unless you set me free of that burden and accept you are wrong to attack me the way you did and most of what you said about me was wrong.

A block function would work so neither of us need to read each other's posts. But you have the power to end it by learning to talk to people respectfully and politely and about them

My suggestion you go and ask for help in learning such skills are informed and professionally based. Some people need to see professionals for help. I am not qualified to give you that and cannot do it across the Internet (some may try) but it was an honest and respectful suggestion that someone could teach you something about how your behaviour causes people problems. I actually have professional training in dealing with people with such problems. Maybe not certified to consult you professionally and face to face. Stop taking it out on me and stop making ignoramuses think I have a problem. I have enough to deal with. As you see the responses to you are never ending. They never have a way to end. That is the nature of such attacks etc etc etc. Never ending. There is always more to say and its unfair

Before anyone calls out the contradiction I realise I have admitted to not having the required skills to efficiently deal with all these years of attacks from you, and from others in my life. But I don't feel I should be the one needing to seek help to deal with such issues in all parts of my life. If people infringe on me with unreasonable forms of attack why me has to acknowledge that I have some non existent problem requiring skills training. Gaslighting. As I said I have been trained to a reasonable level to deal conciliatarily with unreasonable people and attacks and still find it impossible

We go round and round for infinity. Another thread ruined. More unnecessary upset and misunderstanding after a harmless friendly social response to a bidding problem. The last thing any of us need is others getting involved unnecesarily either thinking they can help. We need a mediation process. We could get sued. Mike and the Possum are having a go at each other again. That's all we need. Busy and stressed people. But I never notice any feeling or emotion in your posts. Different personalities. You seem fine with it all. And in any world, any reasonable social or professional context your level of personal attack cannot be tolerated and left without response. That is the unfair inequality of what you do. My post was harmless and non personal but oh no Mike needs to get nasty and then escalate when his target responds. That means hopefully we both back off but you keep starting it up

Maybe its just that I spent my life in circles where there were not incessant anti-social attacks and infringements on me - not just on certain forums but even from people in society, in the community. Increasing antisociality against a private professional gentle person who keeps himself to himself and doesn't know how to deal with constant infringements. I try asserting myself. Not always good at that. Can get emotional and possibly conflict causing. Can even make me the victims of such attacks seem to be the one with the problem. When all I am doing is reposnding to increasing and seemingly ubiquitous anitosicality everywhere. Forums, neighbours, society in general. What is the gentle professional person who doesn't know how to deal with attacks supposed to do deal with. What do we do without being gaslighted into seeming to be the problem. We avoid making omplaints. if we can. We back off feom them. We hate process and conflict and any unnecesary burden. But when they increase and nobody seems prepared to help what do we do. Come across as some unreasonable emotional angry person writing a long unstructured rant. That is my limitation. I don't have the training in the smart put down or language or retort to respond to you and end it. I am not trained in that and how to deal with obnoxious behaviour from next door. Everyone says make a complaint. Call the police. You know what happens if you do that

I am honestly trying to end the post. For cluttering up the thread but it all needs to be said without any unncessary process, complaint, escalation etc

Thanks

[thepossum]

I am happy for my above to be deleted but will not edit it further or delete it. That can cause further problems and insinuations
Can we just get back to social chat about Bridge without obnoxious personal attack Sorry for typos. I don't have time
Those who are on the receiving end of attack are often the ones who are gaslighted into facing the sanction. Sorry to everyone for the emotional outburst. But its been going on too long from too many quarters
Which ever way it goes we are the ones forced to change our behaviour. We have to let insults go. Let other forms of attack on our rights go. We can respond emotionally, assertively and controlled if able, make a complaint, escalate to unnecessary process. It is always the one receiving the attack who has to change.
We all have rights. Some people try to assert them without infringing on others and some don't
Regarding forums we either get trolled and bullied out of forums or retire from them all together. Either way we lose ad are made out to be the offender who infringed some standard. Wouldn't be the first time. Sorry for standing up for myself. And the first few times I usually try to be nice and assertive. Sometimes personal attack stings too much. I have even been on the receiving end of a vicious assault by a State (twice in fact) - that was a place where going beyond initial quiet assertion of my rights was distinctly unsafe so I had to let them do what they did. We can balance up risks you know. The reason they assaulted me the way they did was that I had earlier stood up for someone else's rights and maybe was a bit too emotional doing that. And 20 years later they still deny me my basic rights. And all gaslighting in all forums is grist to their mill. You see were were entitled to assault him the way we did. We are forced to avoid public places. Forced into our homes and not be able to use the little bit of land we own around them. Not even feeling safe in the street outside the front of our homes. Sometimes feeling we need to leave our homes and lose everything. That is the effect some infringements have on people like me. We avoid forums and other public places and private spaces. They even infringe on them. Made to appear like loners and recluses, not the friendly sociable people we always were

But when it happens year after year inn multiple (possibly related) forums and contexts it seems to be some kind of an MO by a certain culture of people - not suggesting its one person behind the lot. Its too many cases to suggest that a random chance is the explanation, and I certainly know its not my fault unless being a threateningly competent professional is the explanation. That sounds like victim blaming to me so I choose the bullying culture explanation and possible anti -competetive behaviour. It all has a professional tinge to it or a commercial tinge. But other explanations include justice campaigns against some of the above infringments. Many explanations. I certainly know its not my behaviour that is the problem. Clearly I am a threat to a certain group or culture of people or maybe several similar groups and cultures. If I had the software and the police tools and evidence gathering my algorithms would be chomping through all the possible connections and throwing up possible motives and perps. I appreciate that maybe the huge number of interacting circles I have moved in is possible explanation. Too many overlaps of cultures and groups - whatever. Most abuse authority against me. Many don't even allow any decent unbiased process. Any such process would use power against me. Authority and in my view abuse of power

As I said to that other guy who kept attacking me lets hope such an investigation would hypothetically show up no connection to those others trying to hide through defamation and denial of process to hear the evidence

[mw64ahw]

Perhaps the poster would like to indicate the thoughts behind the original post. Is it a played hand where 3NT was down and 4♥ made, or one where opener was taken out of 3NT and went down when 3NT made and got a bit of grief. Is there a double dummy result?

What is perhaps more obvious is the poll results; I think the majority as is shown would not bid on with the hand in question. Knowing this is passing the right strategy, but I guess this partly depends on scoring

I commend thepossum in trying to find a probabilistic answer to the question. I think the constraints have to be broad given we don't know the vulnerability, scoring etc. We also don't know how opener plays - I see a lot of random bidding from FOMO.

A♣, 4+♦ 16-21 hcp, 6.5 to 8.5 playing tricks, no 16-17 or 20-21 balanced hand. 18-19 works with
Qxx
Kxx
AKQJT
Ax
Does either bid make; if neither which one goes down the fewest tricks.

[thepossum]

mw64ahw, on 2023-August-22, 23:39, said:

Perhaps the poster would like to indicate the thoughts behind the original post. Is it a played hand where 3NT was down and 4♥ made, or one where opener was taken out of 3NT and went down when 3NT made and got a bit of grief. Is there a double dummy result?

What is perhaps more obvious is the poll results; I think the majority as is shown would not bid on with the hand in question. Knowing this is passing the right strategy, but I guess this partly depends on scoring

I commend thepossum in trying to find a probabilistic answer to the question. I think the constraints have to be broad given we don't know the vulnerability, scoring etc. We also don't know how opener plays - I see a lot of random bidding from FOMO.

A♣, 4+♦ 16-21 hcp, 6.5 to 8.5 playing tricks, no 16-17 or 20-21 balanced hand. 18-19 works with
Qxx
Kx
AKQJT
Ax
Does either bid make; if neither which one goes down the fewest tricks.

As was discussed a bit above though, the hands I used would mostly have been opened 2C or 2NT
I haven't had chance to look at any other hand types such as those Mike mentioned

It is hard to get many that fit the parameters. I still hope to do it to answer everyone's concerns but it was just a casual and likely erroneous set of parameters done quickly in response, and I was excited that they seemed to favour my bid of 4h - as I said my original sims were irrelevant anyway since I found errors, even with my chosen hands. My later ones were (despite not fitting the long diamonds hand) have fewer errors. They take so long to run for me atm. My last set of hands favoured 4H even more

I will wait and follow the discussion. I was trying to

[mikeh]

mw64ahw, on 2023-August-22, 23:39, said:

Perhaps the poster would like to indicate the thoughts behind the original post. Is it a played hand where 3NT was down and 4♥ made, or one where opener was taken out of 3NT and went down when 3NT made and got a bit of grief. Is there a double dummy result?

What is perhaps more obvious is the poll results; I think the majority as is shown would not bid on with the hand in question. Knowing this is passing the right strategy, but I guess this partly depends on scoring

I commend thepossum in trying to find a probabilistic answer to the question. I think the constraints have to be broad given we don't know the vulnerability, scoring etc. We also don't know how opener plays - I see a lot of random bidding from FOMO.

A♣, 4+♦ 16-21 hcp, 6.5 to 8.5 playing tricks, no 16-17 or 20-21 balanced hand. 18-19 works with
Qxx
Kx
AKQJT
Ax
Does either bid make; if neither which one goes down the fewest tricks.

I prefer to assume partner has 13 cards. Plus any simulator that I’ve used won’t accept or generate 12 card hands, lol. Please know that I’ve made the same mistake many times and will no doubt again. Btw, if you make the missing card a diamond, I doubt any good player would not open 2N, in a std method. Same if you make it a heart or a club, and if a spade, then I’m not sure whether that’s a 3N rebid, with only Ax of clubs and no chance of finding even a 5=4 spade fit if we bid 3N.

I recognize that creating plausible constraints means (a) assume the players in question are knowledgeable,and (b) have at least reasonable competency at the game. If one doesn’t know what the reasonably plausible bids are with different hands, then one can’t set proper constraints.

I think it implausible, at any vulnerability or scoring method, to place opener with a side major, unless it is very weak.

I think it implausible to give him 3+ cards in both majors…say 3=3=5=2 or 3=3=6=1…since any hand willing to venture 3N should be doubling.

I think it implausible for opener to gave 4 clubs…possibly if he’s looking at something like Ax x AKQJxx AJ9x red v white, where collecting 50’s on defence lacks attraction but such hands will be rare compared to 6322 hands or 7222, as examples.

Thus my constraints would be no 4 card major, no void, 2-3 clubs including at least the King, and 18-19 hcp.

I expect that we can all think of hands that would consider and maybe bid 3N that fall outside these constraints, but I would hope that they would capture the great majority of hands consistent with a good player bidding properly.

I don’t currently have access to the software I use (dealmaster)…I need to upgrade it for a new(ish) pc, so I haven’t run the sim. I should add that I always look at the hands generated before confirming their inclusion since it’s normal to generate some hands that don’t look like a reasonable 3N even though they meet the constraints. As an example, my constraints would permit 3=3=4=3 18 counts but I cannot easily think of such a hand bidding 3N. If that seemed true after twenty hands or so, I’d rewrite the constraints to require 5+ diamonds.

Now, if possum is writing his own simulation generator, good for him. Since I’ve no experience beyond a couple of CS courses in engineering school 50 years ago, I rely on software I’ve purchased. I can assure you for that a barely literate computer user such as myself (viewed on a good day) it is easy to run….once (external to the computer) you’ve decided on the constraints. That’s, imo, where bridge expertise….as opposed to the myriad other forms of expertise in the world…becomes essential.

As an aside, I wish that nobody would take a criticism of their bridge writing as any criticism of them as people. I’ve had statements I’ve made criticized by players better than I am and am happy to say that on two different bidding issues, I’ve changed my views as a result. I found their arguments persuasive, but wouldn’t have been persuaded had they not argued with my opinions.

[mw64ahw]

I'd be surprised if they had CS courses 50 years ago; if they did it would have been punch cards and tape😄

And yes I missed an x off

[straube]

mw64ahw, on 2023-August-22, 23:39, said:

Perhaps the poster would like to indicate the thoughts behind the original post. Is it a played hand where 3NT was down and 4♥ made, or one where opener was taken out of 3NT and went down when 3NT made and got a bit of grief. Is there a double dummy result?

Opener had the diamond hand...something like Axx x AKJTxxx AKx

I bid 4H which was doubled. Partner removed to 5D which was also doubled.

I agreed with partner's criticism that I was wrong to remove 3N, but I wondered what others thought. I've found myself rooting for 4H votes! No, I haven't voted.

Appreciate all the insight on the problem.

[mikeh]

mw64ahw, on 2023-August-23, 05:46, said:

I'd be surprised if they had CS courses 50 years ago; if they did it would have been punch cards and tape😄

And yes I missed an x off

Punch cards. A long program used 100 cards.

[TylerE]

mw64ahw, on 2023-August-23, 05:46, said:

I'd be surprised if they had CS courses 50 years ago; if they did it would have been punch cards and tape😄

You'd lose that bet. Cambridge in the UK established the first CS degree program in 1953 which is 70 years ago.

In '73 early Unix systems with interactive text editors were starting to come on-line.

[mw64ahw]

TylerE, on 2023-August-23, 13:34, said:

You'd lose that bet. Cambridge in the UK established the first CS degree program in 1953 which is 70 years ago.

In '73 early Unix systems with interactive text editors were starting to come on-line.

They didn't have one in 1982 as I had to apply for Mathematics rather than CS

[StevenG]

mw64ahw, on 2023-August-23, 14:39, said:

They didn't have one in 1982 as I had to apply for Mathematics rather than CS

They did. You couldn't do it in your first year, though. You had to start with something else and then switch.

[sfi]

straube, on 2023-August-23, 09:50, said:

Opener had the diamond hand...something like Axx x AKJTxxx AKx

Opener having long diamonds and a couple cards outside is the most likely hand on this auction, because a bunch of the 18-19 balanced hands would double to offer alternative places to play. This auction is one of a family which sounds balanced but does not invite you to convert to a six-card major.

Other auctions include (2S) - 3NT, which should deny a balanced hand, and (3S) - 3NT, which has a very wide range of options. You can also throw in an opening 3NT call in 3rd/4th seat, which will typically be a long minor and side values but does not show support for whatever six-card major their partner opted to pass with earlier in the auction.

[thepossum]

mikeh, on 2023-August-23, 01:59, said:

...

bridge expertise….as opposed to the myriad other forms of expertise in the world…becomes essential.

...

When you can question the mathematics/statistics/other behind the methods and inferences you make Mike I may agree with you. Not many have those skills and sadly many fill our journals with their flawed inferences. A knowledge of argument fallacy is also widely lacking where it should be needed most. Sadly most argument is not won by logos it appears in this world too. Having to spend so much of my precious time and emotional energy responding to it is to say the least annoying. From what I see the majority of power and authority in the world comes from argument fallacy. Maybe I will just stop responding to anything that is fallacious. Make my life easier. Much of course comes from ethos which is fair enough. Some of us manage to earn that in various forums

I believe Lionel Messi occasionally misses penalties - some of them on a big stage too. Maybe even when he is having fun and not caring too. You would call him a useless player I imagine Mike

All simulation results stand alone as pieces of evidence of something irrespective of who wrote them and whether you agree with their parameters or not. Just disagreeing with parameters someone may use in a sim, makes no statement or inference on the knowledge or expertise or competeence of the person who made it. Occasionally some of us like to relax and think it is safe to have a bit of fun without somone making an unnecessary and rididulous non-issue out of it. At least I didn't publish it ina journal and destroy millions of lives with it. That is where your argument takes us Mike.

But I just use a third party simulation engine like you (DD written by a good player I believe), with scripting language and sometimes like to play with a few hand types and parameters, and I acknowledged that all my parameters and hands that made 4H the best bid would have been ruled out by most of us with a 2NT or 2C bid. But not everyone bids no trumps with distributional hands - eg Ace singletons. As we all know it is irrelevant and not even worth trying to score points over but I will continue to occasionally and more carefully post my thoughts and even sims and details. Maybe carefully enough not to face another uncalled for attack. I will in future regard this forum as a world class stage and try to draft and present my work accordingly in future. Rather than just a fun place where I could enjoy putting a bid on a poll. Even so, I have missed occasionaly shots at goal at very high level too. But I think you are one of the first people who uses missing shots occasionally as an attack on competence and training. Did the others who bid 4H in said fun social poll get the same treatment. I don't even understand why I am worthy of such attack. And most people who had their fallacies pointed out would back down rather than doubling down over and over again. Dangerous for people like me in most forums

[hrothgar]

Late to the table

I'm simply going to repeat one of my standard refrains:

If you want people to pay attention to the results of a simulation then you absolutely need to post the constraints.

If / when I am posting the results of a Sim, I always post code.

In part because I'll sometimes make bad assumptions wrt to the constraints
In part because I'll sometimes make a coding error