[gprentice]

I was taught a long time ago that when responding to an overcall, you bid according to the law of total tricks (LOTT) and ignore your point count, however an expert player has told me that with 3 cards in your partners suit, you still need 6 points (can count points for shortages) to support at the two level. I'm unable to find any guideline for this on the internet and all the examples show the hand raising the overcall as having six or more points.

So obviously there's a variety of situations e.g. 1H 1S 3H ?? - what do you need to bid 3S or 4S here. 1H 1S pass ?? what do you need to support spades here.

Is there any consensus on how many points you need to support an overcall.
e.g.
1. With ten plus points and a fit, use unassuming cue bid
else
2. Not vulnerable, use LOTT and ignore points
else
3. Vulnerable, need six plus points and LOTT

[mw64ahw]

I doubt there is any consensus as it is not only about points, but also about shape and the strength of your overcalls.

If you start by knowing the minimum strength of your partners overcall then you work out from your hand what level should be safe. You then have a number of options depending on strength (hcp or distributional), no. of cards in support , competition etc.
a) an immediate raise to N-level of your partners suit. This may be LOTT orientated, but vulnerability dependent.
b) a fit jump.
c) an enquiry indicating a fit, say 2N.
d) a cue bid.
e) other
I approach this problem systematically and make use of a modified loser count to aid decision making with the aim of communicating to partner the necessary information to take further action if warranted

[apollo1201]

I would say there is no rule as strict as you mention. It has a lot to do with evaluation beyond just points (honors structure and localization, shape, etc.).

Nevertheless, the 6 points min is a kind of rule that will prevent partner to go too high, either looking for game or competing against opps. Especially vulnerable where going down, especially Xed, could be costly. Knowing if your partner can be light will also help you assess.

E.g. if it goes 1H-1S-pass, I am not raising partner with

xxx
Kxx
Qxxx
Jxx

Ok, 6pts, but a 4333 that will yield no ruff, poor trump support, small unguarded honors and a K that looks badly placed.

Make it Qxx xxxx KJxx xx, and we are already much better. If RHO bids 2C or supports H, it is mandatory to bid. If RHO passes, it is close, but you might still be better off passing as 2S could be regarded as too forward going. And it is likely, should opener balance, that you will get a 2nd chance to bid and partner will know you were too weak to give a constructive raise.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

the big difference is, is it a "free" bid or not.

If the auction goes

(1H) - 1S - (Pass) - ...

The req. for raises are similar to raises facing an opening bid.

If the auction goes

(1H) - 1S - (2H) - ...

The most important thing is: try to show the fit, even if you need to
stretch.
You dont need to show the fit being broke with less than 4HCP and 4333,
and being red to make even less appealing, but otherwise, show the fit.

And partner should know, that you are under pressure to show the fit.

[blackshoe]

Mike Lawrence, The Complete Book On Overcalls.

Adam Parrish, Parrish the Thought Volume 1: Preempts and Overcalls

[Zelandakh]

One of the key factors in competitive bidding is making a division between constructive and purely competitive bidding. In the former, you want to keep your ranges as tight as possible to be able to make an informed decision about how to progress; in the latter your aim is to bid to the limit of the hand as quickly as possible and then let the opps guess, with points only being relevant in working out how expensive it might be. Sometimes, as in the (1♥) - 1♠ - (3♥) case of the OP, it is not possible to have both. In such cases, you should either have a blanket meta rule (such as constructive always takes precedence; or that constructive hands just force to game and raising to 3 is always competitive) or attune your methods to those of the opps. In this case, you might agree that if 3♥ is a weak raise (normal case) then 3♠ is constructive whereas if 3♥ is constructive (played by many B/Is) then 3♠ is competitive. It matters less what the agreement is than that you have one.

Finally, the 4♠ bid in the (1♥) - 1♠ - (3♥) auction is much easier. You bid 4♠ if you want to play game and don't want to create forcing passes. And you bid 4♥ if you want to play game and do want to create forcing passes. Here you have the bidding space to separate out the constructive from the competitive so you should use it appropriately.

[Zelandakh]

 blackshoe, on 2024-October-27, 10:54, said:

Mike Lawrence, The Complete Book On Overcalls.

Adam Parrish, Parrish the Thought Volume 1: Preempts and Overcalls

The best free guide to competitive bidding you will ever find.